DEC2000t audio sync prob on tv playback only

[hareslade]

I've got a DVB freeview box, Hauppage DEC2000t, latest pc software 2.17, firmware 1.11e. 1.6gig cpu. I'm in the U.K

VRD helped immensely with shortcomings of Dec's v2.16 poor video playback consistency of recorded Digital TV programmes, both on pc and via the DEC freeview box to TV set ('scart playback').

New DEC software 2.17 is much better, playback doesn't freeze now, but it now shows up an audio sync problem, - not present when playing back files on the pc screen - but appears playing long (> 30 minute) files to TV via the DEC box. But only with files that have been processed by VRD. (These would probably still have frozen on v2.16 DEC s/w so never played easily end to end until now, with v2.17)

I have many files from v2.16 of DEC, which I had remuxed as 'save as' with VRD, some have had simple edits to remove adverts, others were recorded as segments, remuxed then edited and joined with vrd. All were remuxed first with VRD for 'safety'.

On playing these with 2.17, I notice audio timing 'sync' errors, of up to half a second, either way (advanced/retarded) and have observed one file where the audio sync is ahead onetime, and behind later, and in sync even later!.

If an adjustement of the DEC file playback position slider doesn't create a crash :roll: , moving it on slightly makes the audio sync reset correctly and plays on.

To check it was not a problem with updating DEC's software, I recorded a new BBC24 channel file today. DEC software plays this back to PC with sound in sync, and also to TV the same. The original file is 'ok'

I remuxed this whole file with VRD. Now, when playing this processed file to 'TV only' via the usb link (to the DEC box's mpeg decoder) the sound sync varies - but it doesn't become severe until about 20 minutes into the prog. There don't seem to be any video glitches.

Just to underline - the problem is not present when playing this file via the PC using DEC's 2.17 software player, nor when playing on WINDVD player.

So, with my current knowledge of this problem, it seems that the DEC box's mpeg decoder is mis-reading something in the VRD-produced file, giving the audio sync errors, while the same decoder reads the original DEC-recorded file correctly using exactly the same usb link and DEC PC software.

I'm using VideoReDo 1.5.5.223. registered

Output stream parameters for the simple VRD remux were
Align each frame to Packet boundary ON
Start data packet on Word Boundary OFF
Add padding to short packets ON
Output PTS with each video frame ON
Output packet header with all packets ON

I have a Radeon 32mb DDR video card, latest drivers, the playback now from DEC files is essentially 'bug-free' (apart from the sound sync) and the file mentioned above from BBC24 is normal wide screen format, does not seem to have any dropouts or other incoming tv signal corruptions.

I await some comments? Any DEC2000/3000 owners seen similar tv playback problems?

If no offers, I'll maybe remove the 1.11 firmware :cry: and go back to 1.05, as 1.11 was suggested and supplied by Hauppage UK, before v2.17 came out, as a possible cure for the original video playback probs in 2.16.
(never trust an expert :twisted: )

I'll post again when I've got something more.

[DanR]

I've been working with Hareslade on this for a while and can't figure anything from VideoReDo's side. As many of you know, I'm based in the US and the DEC2000t is for European DVB standards. Even if it was available in the US, I don't think it would connect up to one of my NTSC TVs.

I know we have some DEC2000 users here, can any of you help out?

[hareslade]

OK Dan et al
Burnt some early morning (shortly to be very expensive) oil here, but its been worth it :P
I have a line on whats upsetting the DEC 2000 box decoder

I took out all the checks in the checkboxes out on the 'stream parameters' in VRD, the resulting VRD file remux of the BBC News24 file had intermittent/clicky sound, so checked the 'Output PTS' box only, which cured that.

Then to find which parameter is messing things up sync-wise....

Turns out it's 'Align each video frame to a packet boundary'
When that, and the 'PTS' box are checked (no others) I get the sync playback problem on the DEC playback to TV.

Not only that, but while watching the file play through DEC TV , I heard a number of very intermittent short screeches from the speakers, - each time one happened, the sound sync jumped forward (more advanced).

Not only that, :wink: but in between these sound glitches, I noticed the video (TV screen) drop a lump of frames after a few seconds delay, after which the voice was back in sync, or not so bad.

So the decoder (or wherever these adjustments/errors) are occurring, seems to be primarily 'sound is getting ahead of video', and every so often there's a reaction and some frames are dropped as the system tries to resync.

So there we are - don't know why, but I think I know 'what'.

Its having the ''Align each video frame to a packet boundary' box checked that enables the sound/video sync to go wrong.

It might of course just occur with my PC, but in general I've found that my PC does tend to get what other DEC users get.

Do I not check the 'Align' box from now on Dan? Or are there other more accurate remedies?

[DanR]

Its having the ''Align each video frame to a packet boundary' box checked that enables the sound/video sync to go wrong.Leave it unchecked.

In a way this is humerous :) , since the original reason for that checkbox is to insure that the VideoReDo streams duplicate the stream format created by the Hauppauge PVR cards. There has to be some irony in that. When that box is checked, the each picture frame will will start in its own packet. Any left over space at the end of the packet will be padded. Some video editors (not VideoReDo) can't handle streams that aren't organized this way. Leaving it unchecked should do you no harm.

Of course, had the situation been reversed, I would have said the same thing since in all cases the VideoReDo streams are MPEG2 compliant.

Glad you got it working.

[hareslade]

HI
Good. Usual Hauppage idiosyncrasy :lol:
Just out of interest, were they then calling the PVR streams 'PVA' (ps)?
I reckon they've changed their DEC recorded output now - the DEC playback is obviously better with new 2.17, and I know other users are finding that their old 2.16 recorded files still give some trouble on the new 2.17 player.

Of course, I don't (so far) suffer from that, since VRD cleans them up. :P
Hopefully I won't have to post again on playback probs.

Thanks

[DanR]

The PVA stream is not a PS stream. The PVA stream is the raw output stream created by some DVB decoder chips. Its close to a PS stream, but not identical.

I wouldn't be hard to support the PVA (as an input stream only) in VideoReDo if there were much demand for it. Had a couple of requests, but not many.

If anyone wants PVA support, please let me know.

[hareslade]

Well this is where the fan gets dirty 8)
Because on my DEC software, the 'recording options' for files is labelled only as
'MPG (ps Audio/video)'
while the DEC help file lists show ....
(although the first option doesn't exist!!!!)
'PVA: Record files as PES audio/video format (default for DVB TV)'
'MPG ps Audio/video format (MPEG2)'

Just to add to confusion, Hauppage reccommend PVAStrumento as an editing tool!

I have sympathy for a software designer trying to create an editor to handle DEC's files.. Anything to do with Digital broadcasts in the UK is confusing! BUT I do know PVAStrumento was popular for remuxing DEC's files, and I now know why it never seemed to work properly for me?

[DanR]

Where does Hauppauge make the recommendation for PVAStrumento?

[hareslade]

Hi Dan
PVAstrumento used to get recommended by Hauppage support in emails, I had one from them saying that, must be within the last 9 months. I thought also it was on their website hidden away, but can't locate it now, things move on.

I never understood why people used it, (desperation?) it was just 'in the air' in reviews and forums, maybe now this year they'll all say use VRD :wink: It is 'getting around'

[zaphod7501]

Hauppauge suggests using PVAStrumento for checking files (for compatibility?) in the downloads section of the MediaMVP (if you're looking for it). They don't mention using it for editing , although if you install it you find it can be used as some sort of editor. I never got it to work so I can't comment on it's usefullness.

[hareslade]

further info (now I spell Hauppauge correctly), found there is a link
it says 'PVAStrumento, from our friend Wiljo Heinen, ...'
on http://www.hauppauge.com/html/sw_mediamvp.htm
wich is Mediamvp subject... but ...

[DanR]

Thanks for the pointer. Does anyone here create PVA files that they need to convert before using VideoReDo? If so, I'd be interested in getting my hands on some sample so we can import them directly.

[bigdaddy]

I haven't yet purchased VRD, but PVA support would be a big selling point.

If interested, I could provide PVA files for your use. Just let me know how you want them.

[DanR]

I haven't yet purchased VRD, but PVA support would be a big selling point.

If interested, I could provide PVA files for your use. Just let me know how you want them.Thanks Bigdaddy I would appreciate it. Ideally, can you upload the 1st 20mb and last 20 mb of a file to our ftp site: ftp://videoredo:videoredo@ftp.drdsystems.com/ please put the files in the upload folder and send me an email or post something here when done.

Do the PVA files have a unique extension, like PVA or something like that?

Thanks.

[bigdaddy]

Yes, they use pva for the extention.

I will try to get you a suitable sample uploaded within the next day or two.

Please keep me in the loop on this.

[DanR]

Thanks BigDaddy. I forgot to mention that you can use the Tools>Trim and Copy Source on the VideoReDo menu to easily create the extractions.

[bigdaddy]

Dan,

I put the two pva files in the upload folder in a folder called PVA. Let me know what you come up with.

Charlie

[DanR]

Thanks Bigdady, I'll post something here when I've checked them out.