verifying playability of burned DVD disk

[bobarnett]

After editing and burning a captured video, I have been using Nic Wilson's DVD InfoPro to verify whether a DVD disk has burned properly (testing media for CRC errors) but sometimes, even though it checks out as having no CRC read errors, when the disk is played it gets to a specific spot in the video and freezes. Is there another more accurate way to verify that a DVD disk will play correctly without having to sit and watch the whole thing?

[laserfan]

Have you tried these disks in other players, and verified that it stops in the same spot(s)?

[Anole]

I burn two at a time.
Then, I subject at least one to playing at high speed on my living room DVD player.
That is usually at 20X speed.
Not very scientific, but nothing gets out without some sort of play-test.

Once you find a combination of burning software, speed, media, et al, then you tend to have more confidence in your product.
At least, I do.

I also give away a lot of copies of what I burn, looking for general feedback.
Either people are politely lying to me, or I have a pretty good success rate. :)

[bobarnett]

Actually my burning success rate is pretty good but I just wanted to understand why sometimes a disc won't play completely even when there are no CRC errors reported by my testing software.

[bitter_old_man]

Some DVD players just don't like certain DVD media.

Barry

[phd]

Also, they may not like the burner or the aurhoring program.

[wwjd]

By trial and error I have learned which DVD burning software, which type of DVD disk and what speed to burn it at that works in all of my DVD players.

For stuff I really want I keep the original, which for me is family video that is either on VHS, 8mm or miniDV. I make two DVD copies.

For all other burns I trust in my setup. If I do get a bad burn, then it is a 'Dont care' because it is not really that important.

I use TY DVDs, burn at no more than 8x and I primarily burn with DVD Decrypter. My backup DVD burn software is Nero Express (Not Nero Vision Express)

[Lester Burnham]

Actually my burning success rate is pretty good but I just wanted to understand why sometimes a disc won't play completely even when there are no CRC errors reported by my testing software.

Surely a CRC (cylic redundancy check) is just checking the integrity of the data - not the validity.

It may be a faithful (given error correction, or otherwise) rendition of the original file(s), but still have DVD-Video, or perhaps individual player characteristics issues.

Maybe a bitrate spike, maybe something slightly untoward with the mpeg data at that point. That may be in the source files on / for the DVD, as opposed to some issue with the way a disk was burnt.

[bitter_old_man]

Do the freezes occur more often near the end of the DVD? If so, this usually means you are using poor quality media.

Barry

[BaysideBas]

Do the freezes occur more often near the end of the DVD? If so, this usually means you are using poor quality media.

BarryYes, but not necessarily. I had experience with 4X Verbatim discs that failed about 2/3s of the way when recording at the rated 4X, but burned perfectly when recorded at 2.4X.

[laserfan]

I made a coaster just yesterday with a disc type that had heretofore burned reliably at 16x (Verbatim). I changed the Max to 12x and it worked fine.

I have seen this enough times that I try always to use the speed just BELOW the rated speed of the disc. Slower to be sure, but less time-consuming in the end!

[Lester Burnham]

Yes, but not necessarily. I had experience with 4X Verbatim discs that failed about 2/3s of the way when recording at the rated 4X, but burned perfectly when recorded at 2.4X.

How up-to-date is the firmware for your DVD burner - that's most often what gets updated - media info.

Also, some burners, build up burn "info" as they go.

But in general, for problems like this, burning at a lower speed than the max for the media, is a good way to get some kind of reliability.

Otherwise, it's trial and error, finding a particular type of disk that appears to agree with your burner.

[Anole]

Do the freezes occur more often near the end of the DVD?
If so, this usually means you are using poor quality media.

I'm with BOM here... or at least you're walking on thin ice with your media.
And it is possible that your DVD burner has a poor calibration table for some particular media at some particular speed.
Change brand, batch, and/or burn speed and see what happens.
I got a real eye-opener in the summer of 2004 when I changed burners!

I have seen several different failure modes.

The one I experienced last night was after burning two discs at once.
It was suspect 4X media, so I burned at 2X.
The two movies pushed the burn to about 4gb (nearly full).
One disc had stalling near the end of the 2nd movie. (discarded the disc)
The other disc had minor stalling during the credits of the 2nd movie. (gave away disc, but with a warning)
I call this: Defective Media.
I sometimes try to use up such media in non-full, non-critical, or low-speed applications, and don't worry if they fail occasionally.
Other brands with wobble, or a history of consistent burn-failures have been returned to the vendor or trashed without further waste of time!

I've prepared (authored) discs, made two copies, and found neither worked.
Then, I've stupidly burned more (better) media from the same hard disc image, only to find additional failures.
This I characterizre as an Authoring Failure.
It's pretty rare.... and I don't count mistakes I've made in my Menu. :)

I've prepared (authored) discs, made two copies, and found neither worked.
(sound familiar?)
Then, I've burned more media from the same hard disc image, and found they worked fine.!.
This I characterizre as a NERO Burn Failure.
It's uncommon, but once in a while, I think Nero and its under run correction aren't 100% perfect.
Or maybe not 100% perfect on my burners...

I pay 30- to 40-cents US for printable, reliable, 8X -R media.
I burn two-at-a-time in two NEC 3420 16X recorders.
Nero lets me burn some of my 8x media at 12X, and it seems fine, too.
I've identified brands of garbage media available at 15- to 25-cents, and they aren't worth fooling with.
Sometimes I weaken and buy unknown media on sale for as little as 8- or 9-cents.
Some works, most goes into my seconds pile.


BTW, I think the Nero suite has a bit error test program bundled with it.
If not, then I've read about one on doom9 or somewhere.
I know I've seen serious studies of various media under test by users.
Maybe we should all go study those reports.
...and bring that info back here to share.
:)

[bobarnett]

The freezes seem to occur just about anywhere... beginning, middle, end... with no consistency. I've been using Ridata 4X DVD+RW disks and generally having good results. It's just an occasional incomplete or bad burn that bothers me. Getting back to my original issue, however, does anyone know of some sort of testing software/hardware that can tell if the program on the disk will play. Unfortunately, I just don't have time to sit and watch all disks I burn and would like to know if the disc is bad before I lose the original program on my TiVo.

[laserfan]

I like to use Nero CD/DVD Speed (I think latest is 4.01) on my burns. You should try it on a couple of your "bad" discs and see if it errors. Certainly, if Nero CD Speed (ScanDisc mode BTW) says it's not 100%, I wouldn't trust the disc.

[wwjd]

bobarnett wrote:
"Getting back to my original issue, however, does anyone know of some sort of testing software/hardware that can tell if the program on the disk will play."

The short answer is no.

Check out nomorecoasters.com

[bobarnett]

I downloaded Nero CD/DVD Speed and ran a disc scan but it went so fast (about 4 seconds), it didn't seem like it really did anything. It said the disk was 100% Good but after stopping it shows the "position" as 3MB and there's only about 10 little green squares in the progress window. Does this seem right. Roxio's DVD InfoPro takes about five minutes to do a CRC test.

[laserfan]

No Bob, something is wrong, either with the Nero download or (more likely) with your disc. It takes quite a while to scan even a 4.7Gb disc (I dunno, maybe 15mins), and the "little green squares" should fill almost the entire window.

Methinks something is rotten in the state of Denmark. What are you burning with (app)?

[bitter_old_man]

In CD-DVD Speed, run a transfer rate test. If there are dips in the curve, the drive is having to slow down to read the disc.

Barry

[Anole]

1)The freezes seem to occur just about anywhere... beginning, middle, end... with no consistency.
2)I've been using Ridata 4X DVD+RW disks and generally having good results.
3)It's just an occasional incomplete or bad burn that bothers me.
4)Unfortunately, I just don't have time to sit and watch all disks I burn and would like to know if the disc is bad before I lose the original program on my TiVo.
1) if faced with this problem, I'd deep-six the media, followed shortly by the burner.
2) most set-top players are less friendly to RW media, and I strongly recommend the burn-once type.
3) yep, hate that. Dwarves? Pixies? Gremlins?
4) that's why I've found that running them through on "play" at 8X or 20X before dumping the original is mandatory.

[bobarnett]

First of all, let me say that I am a really novice dvd "author". Probably, more like a "wombie" than a "newbie" so be gentle with me.

I used CD/DVD Speed on another disk and it went through the whole disk as you said it should. The odd thing is that I am able to play the disk that Nero had trouble with and even capture the video that was on it ok, too.

Just for your information the dvd creation process I have arrived at is:
1. Copying the VHS (or the TiVo recording) to DVD using my GoVideo DVR.
These play fine; probably less than a 1% failure rate.
2. Capture the video to my PC using Roxio's Capture into an mpg file.
3. Editing the video using Video ReDo and saving it to my hard drive as an mpg file.
4. Using Roxio's DVD Builder to burn an iso file to my hard drive.
This was the recommendation from the experts on Roxio's Support Community and I will have to say my burning success rate shot up to, say, 90%+ when I started doing it this way.
5. Using Roxio's Copy to transcode and then burn the iso file to the DVD.

Now, about media:
My DVR manufacturer (GoVideo) recommended I use 4x disks and I have had virtually no problem burning them from TiVo or a VHS tape. When I decided to start transferring my VHS onto DVD, I bought an Iomega Super DVD (is this an ok burner?) and started using the 4x disks there also.
Should I be getting faster disks?... 8x?... 16x?... When burning the disk, I see no options for burning slower than 4x on these 4x disks, is this determined by the disk itself?... or...?

[bitter_old_man]

Burning speed is determined by the drive's firmware.

Barry

[bobarnett]

The info I have says it is an Iomega Super DVD Writer 8x All-Format External Drive. Can I use 8x disks? and then burn at 4x? I also note in the Roxio burning software I use, I only have options for 4x or 2.4x and if I choose the 2.4x and wait about 15 seconds, it reverts back to 4x all by itself. Am I confused or what?

[bitter_old_man]

The info I have says it is an Iomega Super DVD Writer 8x All-Format External Drive. Can I use 8x disks? and then burn at 4x? Probably, unless the firmware doesn't allow 8x or 4x, which is possible if the disc isn't recognized by the firmware.


I also note in the Roxio burning software I use, I only have options for 4x or 2.4x and if I choose the 2.4x and wait about 15 seconds, it reverts back to 4x all by itself. I don't use Roxio, so I don't really know why it's doing that.

Barry

[bobarnett]

I find the greatest hitch in my process is either the creation of the iso file or the actual burning to a dvd. The other steps along the way produce results that play fine whether it is on the dvd disk or the mpg files on my hard drive. I don't seem to have a way of playing the iso file so I can't say for sure when it gets to the dvd, if there is a problem, which of the two steps is the problem. Is there any way to play an iso file that's residing on my hard drive? Any opinions on what is a really good (and forgiving) burning software?

[laserfan]

...Is there any way to play an iso file that's residing on my hard drive? Any opinions on what is a really good (and forgiving) burning software?Look at www.daemon-tools.cc which will let you "mount" an ISO file and play it as if it were a loaded DVD.

I dunno about "forgiving" burning software. I have used Nero Burning ROM in the past, but these days I like RecordNow 7.3. I'm inclined to guess that your Roxio burning sw might use the same engine.

[Anole]

I use Nero Burning ROM part of the Nero ver 6.6 suite , only!
As I recall, ver 6.0 and 5.something worked fine, as well.
It knows how to make proper DVDs, given the right files (that's how I do it), but it'll also burn from ISO images.

There have been others on this forum who've made their ISO images, then burned 'em with some free software.
Poke around and you might discover yet another option.

[Lester Burnham]

I find the greatest hitch in my process is either the creation of the iso file or the actual burning to a dvd. The other steps along the way produce results that play fine whether it is on the dvd disk or the mpg files on my hard drive. I don't seem to have a way of playing the iso file so I can't say for sure when it gets to the dvd, if there is a problem, which of the two steps is the problem. Is there any way to play an iso file that's residing on my hard drive? Any opinions on what is a really good (and forgiving) burning software?

If you've got an ISO, I only ever use either DVDDecrypter or the new evolution of the burning engine from it - IMGBURN. Both freeware, and I've used DVDDecrypter, exclusively, for burining ISOs for some time.

DVDDecrypter isn't distributed anymore, after legal action, but IMGBURN is freeware, and is from the same author, and is the burning aspect of DVDDecrypter.

[bobarnett]

Boy, you guys have really been a lot of help. Maybe you can help me go one step further. Roxio's suite has way too much stuff and quite a bit of it that doesn't work well for me. I've currently only been using it's Capture, DVD Builder to author the ISO file and Disc Copier to burn it. Capture is the only part that seems to be trouble free so I wouldn't mind having some other software to make the ISO from an MPG. The only aspect of Roxio's Disc Copier that I really like is it's ability to compress larger iso files down to a size that will fit on a DVD disk before it burns it. Can IMGBURN do this?

[laserfan]

...The only aspect of Roxio's Disc Copier that I really like is it's ability to compress larger iso files down to a size that will fit on a DVD disk before it burns it. Can IMGBURN do this?No, IMGBURN is a burning program only.

There are lots of ways to skin this particular cat I think. If all you want is a VIDEO_TS of your mpg file for a DVD player, the easiest path is to output your mpg from VRD+ as a Transport Stream, then import to HDTV2DVD and burn the resultant titleset to DVD. Never mind that the program isn't HD--this will make a VIDEO_TS that fits on a DVD-5.

Another easy tool to use on your Roxio ISO output though is DVD Shrink. Just open and Backup again--it will transcode your capture to fit on a single-layer DVD. If the "compression factor" is 75% or more it will likely look just fine.

DVD Rebuilder will take your ISO, after you've mounted it with Daemon Tools, and re-encode it to fit on a DVD-5. If Shrink says it has to be less than 75% to fit on a DVD-5, then use DVD-RB for much better quality.

A freeware tool to accomplish much of DVD-RB's re-encoding is DVD2SVCD (never mind the name--it doesn't describe what the program is capable of). You can use it to re-encode just like DVD-RB to fit...

There are more options if you really wanna get dizzy...

[bobarnett]

ooOOooo, I'm already a little dizzy. I'll work on your suggestions before I go any further. Excellent!! Thanks for your help.

[bobarnett]

1. Well, I'm the midst of trying out all the suggestions and was using HDTV2DVD to process the ts from VRD+. The ts was appx 3GB (about a 2 hour mpg) but HDTV2DVD reported it too big (5.3GB) to fit on a DVD. I checked the AutoFit and proceeded but it took 1 hour 40 minutes to process. Is this normal? It seemed like very long time to me.
2. Also, using the Daemon Tools, I viewed the iso file (cool trick.. thanks) that I had made using Roxio's DVD Builder and found that the audio was out of sync starting about 2/3 of the way into the program. I also viewed the VRD+ mpg and it was in sync just fine. Is there a better mpg to iso file maker? It seems that slowly but surely I'm eliminating various portions of the Roxio suite as being trouble-makers.;
3. After burning the file set to DVD, I find that everybody looks a little squished... a little shorter and wider than normal. How does one fix this?
4. Perhaps, I've extended this topic too far. Should I be opening up another topic?

[laserfan]

The ts was appx 3GB (about a 2 hour mpg) but HDTV2DVD reported it too big (5.3GB) to fit on a DVD. I checked the AutoFit...Did you mean THE ORIGINAL was 3Gb, and the ts was 5.3Gb? When you saved your VRD program as a ts, is "Omit Null Packets" checked in VRD's Transport Stream Output Options? This should be checked. That is the only thing I know that would make your program Bigger than the original. In any case, yes, normally you would have Autofit selected for a DVD-5, and check the DL box if you have a Dual Layer burner, to make a VIDEO_TS that will be fit for a DVD-9.

HDTV2DVD DOES RE-ENCODE, so my suggestion to try it was for those programs you needed to squeeze down in order to fit to a DVD-5. Because it is re-encoding, an hour & 40 minutes sounds normal to me (indeed, quick) for re-encoding a 2 hour program. Again, you had asked how to fit to a DVD-5 and the HDTV2DVD trick is the most direct way that I know from VRD+.

2. Also, using the Daemon Tools, I viewed the iso file (cool trick.. thanks) that I had made using Roxio's DVD Builder and found that the audio was out of sync starting about 2/3 of the way into the program. I also viewed the VRD+ mpg and it was in sync just fine. Is there a better mpg to iso file maker? It seems that slowly but surely I'm eliminating various portions of the Roxio suite as being trouble-makers.I don't know Roxio, sorry. What player did you use to ID the sync problem? Do you have any others you can cross-check to make sure the sync issue is real?

Does Roxio DVD Builder re-encode i.e. does it take an hour-per-hour to build the ISO? Another re-encoding ISO-maker to try is DVD2SVCD.

3. After burning the file set to DVD, I find that everybody looks a little squished... a little shorter and wider than normal. How does one fix this?Again, I dunno Roxio. Feels like you have a setting wrong somewhere in that program. Try making a VIDEO_TS of the same mpg using HDTV2DVD to compare. If I misunderstood, and it's the H2D output that looks wrong, is there any chance you selected the wrong aspect ratio when you did "Save As" to Transport Stream using VRD+? I'm talking about the Options in the Save As dialog (there are Save, Cancel, and Options buttons there). I think these options need to be left at "No Change" most of the time.

4. Perhaps, I've extended this topic too far. Should I be opening up another topic?Actually, we've taken this thread way off-topic. I think you started it though--if yes we can keep going right here if you want.

[bobarnett]

The ts output from VRD+ was 2.85GB but when I brought it into HDTV2DVD Layout area, it showed the size on the bar at 4.89GB (I rechecked the size and it wasn't 5.5GB... my memory exaggerates) until I checked the AutoFit box.
Roxio's DVD Builder does recode but it only takes about twenty minutes for a 2 hour program. I don't know what the difference is.
The sync issue is there on three different DVD players that I have but I found using Daemon's Tools to mount ISO that the problem was there, too, so it wasn't in the burning process.
The ratio problem evidently wasn't really a problem. I tried playing it in my PC's internal DVD player first and that's where it looked funny. After rebooting, I played it in my external DVD burner/player it was fine.
I'll take a look at the DVD2SVCD for ISO filemaking that you mentioned, too.
Thanks. I really appreciate all the help you're giving this.

[bobarnett]

I downloaded the DVD2SVCD and got really overwhelmed by all the stuff about which I just don't have a clue. I could find no reference to making an iso from an mpg nor, in fact, could I find any reference to "iso" on their website http://www.dvd2dvd.org/

[laserfan]

Re: DVD2DVD, the option to output an ISO is in the "DVD Image" tab. I understand though how you might be intimidated by the thing--it's something of a "swiss army knife" of video tools with lots of options.

Unlike VRD+, many of the freeware/shareware tools don't come with Help files, but most of them do also have Tutorials that various people have made to help you learn them. These are not always on the tools' websites. Google is my friend.

[bobarnett]

I can't seem to find in IMGBURN where I can select anything but an iso file for burning to a DVD. I have ended up with a Video_TS folder that I need to get onto my disk. Can IMGBURN do this?

[bitter_old_man]

No, it can only burn an ISO file. To convert the folder to an ISO, try Folder2Iso or ImgTool Classic (not ImgTool Burn).

http://www.coujo.de/index.php for ImgTool Classic
http://www.trustfm.net/divx/SoftwareFolder2Iso.html for Folder2Iso

Barry

[bobarnett]

Well, I certainly have a lot of new tools to work with. Thanks to everybody for their help. I'm sure I'll be back however... I seem to always come up with questions.