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View Full Version : Video ReDo edits and Nero VE compatibility (Again)



The Nomads
May 10th, 2006, 10:21 PM
I have for some time been recording 30 minute programs from my Digital Optus (Melbourne Australia) box (S-Video output) using a Fusion DVB-t1 PCI card.
These programs are broadcast in 16:9 format, but are 4:3 content.
I have so far 22 files, which I have elected to archive as mpg files (418 Mb), as output by Video ReDo (VRD) BETA 466 and 468 after editing.
I initially intended archiving them as DVD's, but I found that after processing by Nero Vision Express3 (NVE), the resulting file was increased to 800 Mb, and the process took around 55 minutes per edited 25 minute video. Not practical.
A further problem was that the aspect ratio of the displayed video, using Power DVD (PDVD) or Nero Showtime (NST), was more like 1:1, rather than 4:3 in post stamp. For that reason I have loaded Zoom Player Standard and can now view the files as full screen 4:3, and, for a Dvico analogue recording, they aren't all that bad. Just tollerable, and useful.
After a lot of forum searching for aspect ratio problems, I finally found out that VRD can save edited files with specified Aspect Ratio and Audio parameters, via the Options button on the Save File box, instead of using the default setting "Unchanged".
Using these settings, and by re-saving the existing edited mpgs, or when processing new files using these settings, I now have new mpg files, with the same size as the original edits (418 Mb), but which display using PDVD and NST in 4:3 postage stamp, and, NVE now sees them as compliant DVD files, converting them into a Video_TS directory in 4 minutes, with a size of 420 Mb. A big step forward.
Well, this has happened for 20 of the 22 files. There are two rogue files which will not respond fully to these specified saving settings.
These two files still save out of VRD at 418 MB mpg's, and display in PDVD and NST as 4:3 postage stamp, but NVE creates an 800 Mb DVD file, and now takes 27 minutes to process. NVE still sees them as non-compliant for DVD. G-Spot seems to indicate they are all compliant.
Whilst the problem only exists in 2 out of 22 files at this stage, I would like to find a solution for all files, as one of the rogue files is a new recording, which was processed from start using these save settings, not just resaved by VRD, so the number will continue to increase.
Would any knowledgeable luminaries on this forum have any suggestions as to what might be causing the problem, and a solution?
Is there any further information I can provide to assist?
I have not tried saving with a GOP of 15 specified. I might try that on the rogues tonight.
Sorry for the long winded posting on this issue.
Thanks in advance for any help.
Ray

Anole
May 11th, 2006, 12:19 AM
I have not tried saving with a GOP of 15 specified.
You've been doing your homework.
And, it's good that you have triumphed over Nero! :)
I sometimes have trouble with files that don't otherwise show any signs of being bad, too.
They crash when run through WinAVI, and they won't "compile" in DVD Labs.

I was just about to suggest forcing the GOP=15 in a save, just to see what it might do for you.
You seem well ahead of me on this.
If I understand correctly, that may cause VRD to reencode the file, something it won't normally do.
It's not fast, so do anything you can to improve speed.
Put the source on one drive and the output on another, if you have 'em.

At least VRD will read and play these rogue files, so that's a big plus.
Let us know how that works out.
If you read another thread I wrote, it is what seemed to work for me in a single test, but I don't know if it's a general band-aid.

MrVideo
May 11th, 2006, 01:11 AM
Even though 18 (NTSC) and 15 (PAL) are listed as the maximums, the reference material I can find indicate that normal use is 15/12. That are the values that are used in the CCE encoder that I use. I've never seen a DVB-S (SD or HD) with a GOP larger than 15.

The Nomads
May 11th, 2006, 01:39 AM
Thanks for the replies.
I have just processed today's two new files and both worked in all respects, NVE accepts them as compliant.
I also tried GOP=15 on one of the rogue files, but that did not solve the problem.
Incidently, I did not notice any difference in the time it took VRD to process the file with GOP set to 15. I think I saw written that the increase in process time is related to the number of other than 15 (or what is set) GOPs which have to be processed. I guess that means there were none in excess of 15 in my file.
One point I forgot to mention. When processing the second rogue file, which was edited from the original recorded file, the end dialog box reported "1 input sequence error".
Normally, I do not see any red entries after processing. Maybe that is significant?
Thanks
Ray

Anole
May 11th, 2006, 03:16 AM
See my error list at the bottom of my first post in this other thread (http://www.videoredo.net/msgBoard/showthread.php?t=2490).
Lots of errors.
But, that's what VRD is supposed to fix. ;)

And if you have the time, try re-saving it with GOP=14, just to be different.
Shouldn't make it much larger, but would still be an interesting test.
I used GOP=8 in my experiment, and won't go that low again, now that I have a better handle on the correct numbers.

I've been relaxing on other editing tasks, and not run into any more problems on two new DVDs since the weekend.
I really dread going back to the problem files...

The Nomads
May 11th, 2006, 06:47 AM
I performed four more saves with GOP=14, 12, 10 and 8, but nothing changed regarding NVE's reaction. It still created an 800 Mb DVD file, and the processing time remained in the order of 25 minutes,
I guess my best plan is to cross my fingers when I do the initial edit.
The time for VRD to process the files went from 1Min52Sec for GOP=unchanged, up to 6M38S for GOP=8.
Thanks for responding
Ray

Anole
May 11th, 2006, 07:17 AM
I was afraid it sounded too good to be true. :(
Thanks for your test.

DanR
May 11th, 2006, 10:17 AM
I performed four more saves with GOP=14, 12, 10 and 8, but nothing changed regarding NVE's reaction. It still created an 800 Mb DVD file, and the processing time remained in the order of 25 minutes,
I guess my best plan is to cross my fingers when I do the initial edit.
The time for VRD to process the files went from 1Min52Sec for GOP=unchanged, up to 6M38S for GOP=8.
Thanks for responding
RayWe've done some more testing with NVE and have found that if the last frame of a file is an I-Frame, NVE will recode. Don't know why they do, but that's what's happening.

If your file is fairly standard IBBPBBPBBPBBP, etc. format, placing the last cut on an I or P frame will result in the last frame of the output file being a B or P frame which NVE seems to like.