Bit Rate....perhaps?

[Carl Rawson]

Last night I used VRD to remux some t.v. shows on commercial a DVD so as to author them, using Roxio Creator 7, to DVD. The purchased DVD being 7.9GB and me having only the usual 4.9GB.
I found the .vob files and as usual each program was nearly complete save the end which was a different file. I remuxed them and joined them using VRD and they played in VRD and WMP very well. If you knew where the join was you could see it. If you didn't I'd say you'd never notice. I authored them to disc and in my standalone ( a Toshiba SD535 ) there was no sound and playing the disc in WMP and VRD the sound worked for about a minute then went off and the picture went into fast forward.
I don't for one minute think that this is a VRD problem but wondered if it could help sort the problem. The only thing I noticed about each conversion was that the "actual bit rate" was different each time.
Any thoughts :?:
P.S. Dan. Any chance that the "open file" can be defaulted to "all files" as opposed to ".mpeg"? I had to keep changing between ".vob" and ".mpeg".
:wink:

[DanR]

First off which version/build of VideoReDo are you using? If you are using 243, then I suggest you update to the latest version posted. BTW are you PAL or NTSC? If NTSC then you definately need to update since there were a bunch of issues with 3:2 pulldown.

2) Try running QuickStream fix on your VOB files before editing with VideoReDo, they might help the sound issue. If we can explore it further.

3) To add the VOB file to the default list of files, go to Tools>Option>File Associations. Add VOB to the list and click on the checkbox next to it. It will then show up in your default file list.

[Anonymous]

Version 243. I undertsand that there's a new version out today?
I'm in PAL land...little old blighty.
Did you mean run Quickstream on the .vob file itself?

[Carl Rawson]

Hang on that guest is me...don't know how that happened.

[DanR]

You won't have the 3:2 pull down issue in PAL, but I recommend updating anyway.

Yes, run the QuickStream fix on the VOB file first, before editing.

[Carl Rawson]

Dan, I may be getting to the bottom of this. According to another forum I've learnt that the Hauppage streams that I record from t.v. are not MPEG but PVA. Does that mean anything to you? It would appear that VRD handles these streams admirably! Also, that previous issue of authoring the BBC to DVD and it appearing on the DVD Builder as 2.5 times as large may be due to this. I've some other software now that "converts" these PVA files to MPEG and then the BBC goes to the builder at the correct file size. :)
Unfortunately that issue of running the .vob files through Quickstream hasn't solved the issue of the missing sound upon authoring I'm afraid. I'm working on it and will let you know.
Was the handling of these PVA streams an intended functionality or are they so closely linked to MPEG that they would anyway :?:

[DanR]

VideoReDo is designed to handle PVA streams as input, but will output them as MPEG2 program streams. Technically, PVA streams are MPEG2 elementary streams multiplexed differently than program streams.

Are the VideoReDo files being created 2.5 times as large in DVD Builder?

If you want, me to look at the VOB file, either send it snail email or upload a tools>trimmed section to the FTP site.

[Carl Rawson]

Hmmm! That's even stranger if VRD outputs PVA to MPEG.
No, I'm convinced that this is NOT a VRD issue. I was just hoping that it could help sort it.
The BBC program that was at issue was the Last Night of the Proms. One file came out at 2GB and the other at 1.15GB (I think). I joined them and Windows gave me a correct indication as to the size indicating that VRD was doing it's job correctly. Adding them to Roxio's DVD Builder created this HUGE DVD at something like 6.7GB :shock: ! Other such recorded t.v. files untouched by VRD have the same effect.
This must be a Roxio issue I think.
I'll snail mail some .vob files that have been untouched and quickstream fixed by VRD. Unfortunately the sound doesn't work when authoring to DVD. I am working on it; I'm having another good bash tonight and will let you know.
p.s. Re some other files I have snail mailed to you. Check the bills! Remember? Email last week? Wife? Bills? :wink:

[DanR]

Carl, The disk arrived yesterday. Thanks. Won't get to look at it until tonight.

[Carl Rawson]

Jolly good show! It's just the bare bones files once again. No authoring.

[Carl Rawson]

:D .
There must be something funny about the streams that are broadcast in the UK. I understand that there's a 24Mb/s bandwidth shared by partner companies but the BBC gets a full 6Mb/s all to itself. This may have lead to the funny sizes appearing when authoring to DVD :shock: !
Before using VRD I've had to use another program called PVAstrumento to fix them to MPEG streams so that they are... I don't know really, but consistant. Unfortunately Quickstream doesn't do the job in the same way. What does Quickstream actually do? After that VRD does the editing in double quick time as ever.
With regard to there being no sound. Read "operator error!" :oops: As the streams are broadcast different I had to reconfigure the optical output of the DVD player from STREAM to DD/RAW. It then gave me sound. The .vob files issue is now not...an issue (sound).
I'll send you 2 discs both of which are edited by VRD as promised :wink: . Private email on it's way as to why there are 2.
Thanks again Dan! It's been a steep learning curve but VRD is just the best for clipping the start, adverts and ends of t.v. shows!

[DanR]

PVAStrumento is a fine tool, but support for PVA formatted files has been incorporporated into VideReDo for many months now. I look forward to seeing the DVDs.

[Carl Rawson]

Okey Dokey!
You should all ready have received the bare bones files that haven't been processed and the others have just gone in the post. :wink:
'Twould be nice to do it all from VRD.
See what you make of them.

[Carl Rawson]

Morning Dan.

http://www.hauppauge.co.uk/board/showthread.php?p=3322#post3322

Do you think that this may have been at the heart of the problem?
Quote from Chris Day:-
"In VideoReDo there is an option to set the bitrate in the Save Options - I use 4Mbps for everything (except for Five which thanks to TUTV is always <2Mbps these days)
It sounds like Roxio goes by the header information."

It would be so nice to keep it all through VRD.

[Paul Evans]

DTTV in the UK varies from BBC thro ITV to CH4. From my experience the BBC Four use variable bit rate of between 2.5 to 6 Mb/s (often with the header as recorded by DEC2000Tetc set to 8Mb/s). BBC 3 sometimes send at between 2.5 to 6 Mb/s withe the header at 6.5Mb/s .

The BBC according to VideoRedo and other programmes I use, also send the picture at 720x576 pixels, whereas CH4 seem to set header to 15Mb/s and 702x576.

All seem to code the audio as MPEG Layer2. Quality BBC stuff is at 256k/s less discerning stuff at 192k/s. Ch4 seem to use 192kb/s.

So far so good! When you edit in VideoRedo or similar this is all accomodated within the programme, unless options are deliberately altered it will save final edited programmes with same parameters as oringinal.

When the edited content is then subsequently authored to DVD, the authoring programmes generallly seems to look at the header to decide what to do with the content. As mentioned above CH4 typically sets header to 15Mb/s even though actual bitrate maybe 3.4-4Mb/s, the authoring programmes often calculate DVD space requirement from the header bit rate hence the growth is size! Even worse some authoring programmes want to rencode from scratch (MF2 and Adobe Encore).

My proceedure is as follows;

Edit in VideoRedo, save file with bitrate re set to 4Mb/s
Ensure VideoRedo has flag set to be compatable for MF2
When I author from MF2 I save as image file to seperate disc to source file, this with latest drivers seems to ensure no A/V sync problems.

I have experienced lots of A/V sync problems which seem to have gone away with above settings.

Hope this is of use.

[Carl Rawson]

Thanks Paul!
I have to say this has all been a steep learning curve.
Is the 4Mb/s set from the "save" or "save as" menu? I looked for setting the bitrate in the "options" last night and couldn't find it.
MF2 is that an authoring program? I use Roxio 'cos like me it's simple :D ! Where do I find the flag to set for MF2?
As for the audio sync problems I've read about. I've not once had that problem barring one made very quickly as a test (fingers crossed for the future).

[zaphod7501]

The bitrate setting is in the "save as ->options" and not the "tools ->options" section on the newer versions. If I understand your confusion correctly.

[DanR]

Specifically, the bit rate settting is via an "Options" button on the file>save and file->save as dialog.[/img]

[Paul Evans]

I have not used Roxio, but Ulead Movie Factory 2.12 seems simple and is very stable.

I have MF2 option set in VideoRedo.

I use DEC2000-t to record UK material from Freeview DTTV.

My advice is to get simple authoring package that works for you and stay with it. There are lots of feature packed products out there, but reliability of performance particularly in avoiding audio/video sync problems is fundamental. Support on these matters from Ulead has been awful.

[Carl Rawson]

Thanks everyone! I found it by mistake!
I'll record something from the BEEB and author it to make sure it gets the wrong size then resave and reset the bit rate and try that.
Looks like VRD can do the whole job :D !
P.S. Paul. No probs with audio/video sync using VRD and Roxio :wink: .