H.264 (MPEG-4) editing

[rif]

Hello,

H.264 (MPEG-4) has become the standard format for HD satellite TV.
Free and encrypted channels transmitted in DVB-S or DVB-S2 use this format (in a transport stream).
Most European providers in the UK, France, Italy, Germany, etc. already use this format to diffuse their HD programs.

VideoReDo declares on the homepage that their tool is: "...the fastest way to edit MPEG video!".
Well, that should be corrected to say MPEG-2 video only !!!
At least until support for MPEG-4/H.264 format is added.

VideoReDo customer support replied to me some months ago that "MPEG-4 support is on the wish list, but a definite date for release is not available".

I guess it's now time for them to release their plans.
When will H.264 be supported by the tool?
Will it be a free upgrade?

If you're in favour of this request, please add your comment to this thread.
The more we are, the faster we get it...

Cheers,
RIF

[bits]

I would like to see VRD support H.264 especially if that is where digital broadcasts are going in the USA in the next 6-12mos...but at the moment I do not have a need for it.

I currently cap with an analog card from my cablebox so that should continue to work even when H.264 is being used. However, I also run an OTA HD cap card and that one will probably not work...so even though H.264 should reduce file sizes I will need to invest money in order to continue recording OTA. Maybe at that time I will stop recording...will cross that bridge when I get to it.

My guess is that the VRD folks probably have a very good idea of when various parts of the world will be needing H.264 support on a large scale basis.

[rif]

I would like to see VRD support H.264 especially if that is where digital broadcasts are going in the USA in the next 6-12mos...but at the moment I do not have a need for it.

Well, I live in Europe and I do need it now !
I have a DVB-S2 card in my PC and I can receive more than a dozen HD and several dozens SD channels in H.264.
I have a lot of MPEG-4 files and no SW to trim/edit them.
I love VRD and have been using it for a while and would like to keep using it even for H.264 files.

Cheers,
RIF

[Harry]

Well, I live in Europe and I do need it now !
I have a DVB-S2 card in my PC and I can receive more than a dozen HD and several dozens SD channels in H.264.

can you elaborate on that please? where do you live in europe and what HD channels do you get? are they pay-per-view channels or free? i want to step into this as well :D

thanks in advance
Harry

[Robbi]

Pick your country here (http://www.lyngsat.com/freetv/Europe.html). It lists all the free clear ota SD and HD services, for Europe.

[rif]

Harry, sure I can !

I live in the south of France and currently watch the following FTA channels in H.264:
Luxe TV [Hotbird 8 (13.0E) - 12322.00 H - DVB-S - QPSK - 27500 3/4 - NID: 318 - TID: 8100 - Txp: 81 - Beam: HB8 Europe]
ARTE [Astra 1H (19.2E) - 12168.00 V - DVB-S - QPSK - 27500 5/6 - NID: 1 - TID: 1088 - Txp: 88 - Beam: Astra 1H]
Astra HD Promo [Astra 1H (19.2E) - 12168.00 V - DVB-S - QPSK - 27500 5/6 - NID: 1 - TID: 1088 - Txp: 88 - Beam: Astra 1H]
Prosieben HD [Astra 1H (19.2E) - 12721.75 H - DVB-S2 - 8PSK - 22000 2/3 - NID: 1 - TID: 1119 - Txp: 119 - Beam: Astra 1H]
Sat 1 [Astra 1H (19.2E) - 12721.75 H - DVB-S2 - 8PSK - 22000 2/3 - NID: 1 - TID: 1119 - Txp: 119 - Beam: Astra 1H]
Astra HD Promo [Astra 1H (19.2E) - 12721.75 H - DVB-S2 - 8PSK - 22000 2/3 - NID: 1 - TID: 1119 - Txp: 119 - Beam: Astra 1H]
Anixe HD [Astra 1H (19.2E) - 12721.75 H - DVB-S2 - 8PSK - 22000 2/3 - NID: 1 - TID: 1119 - Txp: 119 - Beam: Astra 1H]
BBC HD [Astra 2D (28.2E) - 10847.00 V - DVB-S - QPSK - 22000 5/6 - NID: 2 - TID: 2050 - Txp: 50 - Beam: Astra 2D]

There are around 15 other FTA channels on other European satellites.
There are over 50 PPV HD H.264 channels available today on European satellites and the list is increasing every day with more and more transponders being switched from DVB-S to DVB-S2 and channels being switched from SD MPEG-2 to HD H.264.

For example the French TPS PPV provider currently has 7 HD H.264 PPV channels; the Italian Sky Italy has 4.

You can have a look at this very well done and regularly updated list on King of Sat:
http://en.kingofsat.net/hdtv.php

Cheers,
RIF

[andybno1]

I do BBC HD capping in the uk and would love to see such a feature added to videoredo as my current methods are not 100% working

[Lester Burnham]

I do BBC HD capping in the uk and would love to see such a feature added to videoredo as my current methods are not 100% working

How do you get BBC HD in the UK? You said "capping"? Are you using DVB-S (some kind of freesat) or Sky HD?

[RuudG]

Here's another vote for h264 editing. This is a important feature considering the increasing amount of European HD broadcasts in h264.

[Robbi]

How do you get BBC HD in the UK? You said "capping"? Are you using DVB-S (some kind of freesat) or Sky HD?

DST card whole of the UK. Or with a DTT card receiving from the Crystal Palace transmitter (HD DTT UK trial)

[Lester Burnham]

DST card whole of the UK.

As far as I know the only HD broadcast in the UK (apart from any trials that you suggest below) is SKY HD.

Which will be encrypted.

So who's broadcast, and by what means?


Or with a DTT card receiving from the Crystal Palace transmitter (HD DTT UK trial)

By this I take it you mean that the BBC are broadcasting HD via DVB-T? Is that correct?

[swinokur]

I've asked for this before - so I'll ask here again. Please add h.264 cutting abilities to videoredo.

I'd be happy to even start out with limited support - e.g. only cutting on I-Frames (no re-encoding), requiring CoreAVC, etc.

thanks!

[Robbi]

BBC trials as above are Digital Satellite Television and Digital Terestrial Television. Use the sites above with your favourite search engine. For the full list available FTA HD broadcasts on both platforms.

[DanR]

I've asked for this before - so I'll ask here again. Please add h.264 cutting abilities to videoredo.

I'd be happy to even start out with limited support - e.g. only cutting on I-Frames (no re-encoding), requiring CoreAVC, etc.

thanks!Believe me we know how important this is. I don't think I-Frame cutting will work too well since H.264 can have very long VOPs (the MPEG4 equivalent of GOPs). Each VOP can span multiple seconds.

[Lester Burnham]

BBC trials as above are Digital Satellite Television and Digital Terestrial Television. Use the sites above with your favourite search engine. For the full list available FTA HD broadcasts on both platforms.

All I'm saying is that HD is available in the UK, officially, and not under trial, from Sky. Only on certain limited channels.

And due to the nature of how Sky HD works, I'm not getting how you could get editable material off the box, in HD format, at the moment, with reasonably priced consumer gear.

That and much of what is broadcast as HD at the moment in the UK is upscaled.

Are you saying that BBC are broadcasting HD material, available by FTA, in the UK? If so, there's hardly much hardware support in the UK for dealing with any native HD broadcasts.

[zaphod7501]

I don't know how they got it but a friend had the first two episodes of Torchwood on a DVD in H264 from friends in the UK. With my current software and hardware, I haven't managed to play them (even with all the supposedly needed codecs). The best I've managed was audio. (and that disappeared after installing some "needed" codecs)

[swinokur]

Dan,
Thanks for the reply! H.264 can have long VOPs, that's true. But I've noticed that most of what is being sent right now has a VOP every 500ms or so. (and since I figured that the re-encoding of frames would be the really complicated part, I figured I'd ask for the 'easier' bit first.) :)



Believe me we know how important this is. I don't think I-Frame cutting will work too well since H.264 can have very long VOPs (the MPEG4 equivalent of GOPs). Each VOP can span multiple seconds.

[andybno1]

All I'm saying is that HD is available in the UK, officially, and not under trial, from Sky. Only on certain limited channels.

And due to the nature of how Sky HD works, I'm not getting how you could get editable material off the box, in HD format, at the moment, with reasonably priced consumer gear.

That and much of what is broadcast as HD at the moment in the UK is upscaled.

Are you saying that BBC are broadcasting HD material, available by FTA, in the UK? If so, there's hardly much hardware support in the UK for dealing with any native HD broadcasts.

its VERY simple :rolleyes: theres NO encryption its BBC they are a free to view/air company, all u need really is a dvb (dvb-s2 will work too) and a program like tsreader or dvbviewer get it to scan freq 10847 V sym rate 2200 FEC 5/6 and you will find BBC HD airing free of charge and capable for free. BBC are not a part of Sky HD,Sky HD is merely a name for a service

[Lester Burnham]

its VERY simple :rolleyes: theres NO encryption its BBC they are a free to view/air company,

Actually whilst it's broadcast FTA, it's not exactly FREE. There's a license fee to pay.


all u need really is a dvb (dvb-s2 will work too) and a program like tsreader or dvbviewer get it to scan freq 10847 V sym rate 2200 FEC 5/6 and you will find BBC HD airing free of charge and capable for free.

That's the info I wasn't clear on - I'm gathering what you're saying is that BBC are broadcasting HD as part of an unadvertised trial.


BBC are not a part of Sky HD,Sky HD is merely a name for a service

I'm very aware of BBC's position, and of Sky, and I know Sky HD is merely a product / service.

What I was saying is that Sky HD is the only OFFICIAL broadcaster of HD material in the UK. And in saying that, most of theirs is upscaled.

[rif]

Hello again,

While there is only one French HD channel transmitted FTA (LuxeTV), the many others available within the TPS package are not upscaled.

TF1 and M6 (two of the main French private channels, available FTA via DVB-T or VHF) completely re-built their infrastructure more than one year ago to be completely HD: all what they produce is HD from the cameras to the air.
They made a lot of publicity about this in Nov/Dec 2005, even before they started their HD test transmissions early this year (March or April).
The other HD channels transmitting movies and documentary, within the TPS package, have a large part of their material in HD format (720p or 1080i).
And everything is aired in H.264 via Hotbird.

Cheers,
RIF

[OTR]

Would love to have h.264 editing and conversion NOW, Please :)

[nz85]

I would love MPEG-4 editing or even input would be a start.

[overboosted]

as soon as h264 is implemented i will def buy a copy, but until then............


anytime frame if or when this will happen?

[Cela]

Would love to have h.264 editing and conversion NOW, Please :) May I join in.


... and since I figured that the re-encoding of frames would be the really complicated part, I figured I'd ask for the 'easier' bit first... I-frame cutting would be fine for me for a start.

Please establish a product upgrade at a fair price ASAP.

[Anole]

Please establish a product upgrade at a fair price ASAP.
Please include it with a future upgrade for no cost to existing users. :cool:

[nz85]

Personally I would pay a percentage of the development costs.

[Boomstick]

Another "YES" vote!!

Boomstick

[Robbi]

Where will this end, overpriced software.

If you have plenty of money, donate it to DRD Systems, Inc (http://www.drdsystems.com/). Tell them it is for faster VideoReDo development, of the promised features, or just the features you require. Please don't make everyone else suffer for your indulgences.

[JediFonger]

pls, pls add h.264 editing =D.

[Mediahome]

I would like to add my vote for h.264 support. I am in the US and have Dish service. Dish is migrating over to h.264 so I have a need for its support in VideoReDo.

However, my primary request for h.264 is for re-encoding my existing MPEG2 content so that I can conserve storage space. I would like to setup a batch and let er rip. From lurking around other forums I know this is a highly desired feature. A lot of people are looking for a simple click-click solution that uses minimal disk space in the conversion process and cleans up after itself.

I hope that you guys can add h.264 transcoding ASAP. Editing features could be added with subsequent releases.

Mediahome

[Lester Burnham]

I would like to add my vote for h.264 support. I am in the US and have Dish service. Dish is migrating over to h.264 so I have a need for its support in VideoReDo.

However, my primary request for h.264 is for re-encoding my existing MPEG2 content so that I can conserve storage space. I would like to setup a batch and let er rip. From lurking around other forums I know this is a highly desired feature. A lot of people are looking for a simple click-click solution that uses minimal disk space in the conversion process and cleans up after itself.

I hope that you guys can add h.264 transcoding ASAP. Editing features could be added with subsequent releases.

Mediahome

It's one thing to request editing options for certain codecs - but don't you think it's a little bit off-track requesting that the application change focus from editing to conversion?

[madshi]

All German HD broadcasting (Pro7HD, Sat1HD, Anixe, PremiereHD) is also done in H.264. I'm able to record all the mentioned TV stations and being able to edit the TS files would make me buy VideoReDo at once.

A suggestion to the VideoReDo folks: You could offer a "buy version 2.x now and you'll get the upgrade to version 3.x with H.264 support for free" package. Then I might buy today. Otherwise I'm going to wait.

[JediFonger]

i can't wait at all. i can send you guys the $, just give it to me! =P. h.264 for president!

[OTR]

Lets have H.264 As soon as possible please. I know it not easy, but I bet you can do it !!!

[GrahamD]

I'd also like to see h264 support. A first step would be support in streamfix. At least I could import into Nerovision then. Full video editing would, of course, be excellent.

[dvgeek]

Another "YES" vote

[muad'dib]

I too vote for H264 support... Just to be able to fix audio sync and maybe convert MKV file to TS container would be cool too..

[hajj_3]

i would also like to request h264 compatability!

i want to be able to edit my h264 dvb-s2 .ts files with videoredo, PLEASE can you add support for this! its pretty much the only thing wrong with videoredo plus.

then in the future add .evo editing and .h2ts or whatever the extension for blu-ray files are, there's no rush on that though, but i would really like h264 .ts file support.

[daveb]

I could really use an h.254 editor. If the difference between h.264 and mpeg2 are too great to include in a single application, I'd certainly purchase VideoRedo H.264 as a seperate application.

[moshmothma]

Very interested in h264 editing. Hope this is coming soon. Thanks

[carefreepastor]

Lack of support for mpeg-4 (h.264) is a deal breaker for me. I have heard such glowing reports from users of VideoReDo that I expected that you would be on top of this one. I was ready to buy this product to continue my journey through video editing and streaming via htpc. Whether as a main feature or as an additional plug-in, free or paid for, makes little difference to me after all these years of tweaking to stay current.

[imrevo]

Another vote for h264!

[hajj_3]

can we have an update if you are going to add h264 please!!! even dgmpg not has a dgavc version and h264 is being added as we speak!

[hesseh]

Believe me we know how important this is. I don't think I-Frame cutting will work too well since H.264 can have very long VOPs (the MPEG4 equivalent of GOPs). Each VOP can span multiple seconds.

Have you considered how cutting is done with gdsmux.exe that comes with latest Haali Media Splitter?
I think the cutting is done based purely on the .ts timestamps instead of the frame structure:
But the gdsmux tool is very primitive and the VideoRedo people could vastly improve it or do something like it...

1. double click gdsmux.exe
2. right click input area
3. add source
4. right click on video info box > preview; here you can make a selection:

it will save losslessly as a .mkv but will open and play just like a .ts file...

[Zaven13]

I would like to add another "Yes" vote for H.264 editing capability because recent announcements of the AVCHD palm size HD camcorders with hard drives and SDHC cards are recording in MPEG-4 H.264 format. In addition, the latest HDDVR plus provided by Directv satellite in US also records in MPEG-4 format.

[hajj_3]

how come no mods have replied saying whether h264 capability is being added as we speak and an eta or if they havent started or something??

[DanR]

It's been started. No ETA until we get close to a beta.

[Allstarnz]

It's been started. No ETA until we get close to a beta.

:D

Great news Dan!!

I use VideoReDo for all of my MPEG2 editing. With the announcement that all our digital terrestrial TV will be using MPEG4 over DVB-T, I was at a real loss as to what to edit it with.

Seems the answer may be right in front of me :cool:

[robena]

Until VR is ready, you can use TSPE:

http://www.videohelp.com/tools/TS_Packet_Editor

[rozebud]

It's been started. No ETA until we get close to a beta.

yes great news :D

[Dr.InSide]

I vote: yes!
Please add support for h.263/h.264 (*.mp4, *.ts) in VideoReDo!!!
Thanks!

[DanR]

Please, no more replies to this thread. We hear you load and clear and have already started on this project. Its going to take a number of months so please be patient. When we have product to test we will post a message over in the beta section.

[Allstarnz]

this might be odd, but since I don't have any files to try it with yet I can't test.

Does VideoReDo TV suite support h264 MP4 yet? From what I read above I understood this was to be the case.

I do hope that it will support MP4 H264 with AAC audio. I understand a lot of the next gen of digital TV will support this.

[DanR]

Not yet. we are working on it.

[jmgiorgi]

H264 (MPEG4) editing interests french customers too, on the Canal Satellite / Canal+ satellite networks we have 5 programs broadcasting in HD with dolby digital 5.1 multiple languages audio streams:
- TF1
- Canal+
- M6
- National Geographic
- Cine Cinema Premier
and others will come soon.

To receive Canal Satellite and/or Canal+ you must sucribe on a monthly or annual basis (€21-35 ~US$29-49 monthly for CanalSatellite and €32 ~US$45 monthly for Canal+), HD service is an option (€9 ~US$12.5 monthly for both networks).

I really think that european customers need this feature now!

[Allstarnz]

Not yet. we are working on it.

great, thanks for your quick reply.

[hajj_3]

do we have an ETA of when the h264 support will be finished? there are loads of programs that are coming out like dgavcdec and similar products that support it. I would gladly pay for VideoRedo if it could add this.

[DanR]

Sorry we don't have an ETA.

[qz3fwd]

What other products support H.264.
Can you name some of the "loads" of programs you mention?
I checked out dgavcdec and it is severly limited.

I have been looking for an AVC editor for some time now.
Please educate me.


do we have an ETA of when the h264 support will be finished? there are loads of programs that are coming out like dgavcdec and similar products that support it. I would gladly pay for VideoRedo if it could add this.

[Wintermute77]

To qz3fwd

Check out these:
TS Packet Editor (http://ventolin.freehostia.com/)
h264ts cutter (http://www.h264tscutter.de)
TsRemux (http://www.videohelp.com/tools/TsRemux)
Elecard XMuxer Pro (payware) (http://www.elecard.com/products/products-pc/consumer/xmuxer-pro/)

Supplementary command line tools (look around doom9 forums):
h264tsto.exe
xport.exe
avc2avi.exe

Don't expect perfection though...

[chillin8]

To qz3fwd

Check out these:
TS Packet Editor (http://ventolin.freehostia.com/)
h264ts cutter (http://www.h264tscutter.de)
TsRemux (http://www.videohelp.com/tools/TsRemux)
Elecard XMuxer Pro (payware) (http://www.elecard.com/products/products-pc/consumer/xmuxer-pro/)

Supplementary command line tools (look around doom9 forums):
h264tsto.exe
xport.exe
avc2avi.exe

Don't expect perfection though...

I've been able to play Mpeg.h264.ts files..using h264ts.cutter. then remuxing the file andusing the latest media player classic...as far as editing,,I have had no luck...I was told you would be able to convert these Mpeg 4 files to Mpeg 2 by creating a script using avisynth and loading the script using Quenc...I'm new using avisynth so its been difficult...but still working at it...I hope VideoRedo is making progress....

[hajj_3]

To qz3fwd

Check out these:
TS Packet Editor (http://ventolin.freehostia.com/)
h264ts cutter (http://www.h264tscutter.de)
TsRemux (http://www.videohelp.com/tools/TsRemux)
Elecard XMuxer Pro (payware) (http://www.elecard.com/products/products-pc/consumer/xmuxer-pro/)

Supplementary command line tools (look around doom9 forums):
h264tsto.exe
xport.exe
avc2avi.exe

Don't expect perfection though...

exactly, latest version of dgavc alpha adds .ts support too, its shaping up nicely. But videoredo would be perfect for removing ads and changing extensions from .ts to .mpg or .mp4 or similar extension when saving, shame its taking a long time to complete, hopefully they can post a monthly progress post in here, im sure lots of users would be willing to alpha test, even if its still buggy.

[chilli-z28]

Please, no more replies to this thread. We hear you load and clear and have already started on this project. Its going to take a number of months so please be patient. When we have product to test we will post a message over in the beta section.

Dan:

Any ideas how much more longer for h.264 support?
Specifically for .ts files, I need to be able to trim the beginning and end of my .ts file(s)

[Slammer6751]

I would like to be able to play my files on my Xbox 360.

Am I right in thinking that if my VRD can output the h.264 support I will be able to do that?

[DanR]

I would like to be able to play my files on my Xbox 360.Does XBox 360 support H.264? If so how do you transfer the files to play there.

The way most users play their files on the 360 is to save them as DVR-MS and play them back through the media center extender option.

[hajj_3]

360 can play vc-1 files and .mp4 files, not .mkv files but those can be demuxed and put in a .mp4 container and play nicely. Same with the ps3. This is of course if you update the xbox and ps3 software online to get the update that enables playing these video files.

[DanR]

hajj_3, How do you transfer/stream these files to your 360?

[hajj_3]

burn them onto a dvdr.

[JediFonger]

so it loox like we'll NEVER get this feature? c'mon i'm willing to pay upgrade price for this!!!

[bkh]

C'mon, be nice. They've already said that it is on the list to be done. They obviously are quite active improving the program for us, and they will get to it.

[WGF_Bean]

Question for support. Once you have H264 ready, will you also plan to have an option to convert an mpeg2 file to H264 to reduce file size?

[DanR]

Question for support. Once you have H264 ready, will you also plan to have an option to convert an mpeg2 file to H264 to reduce file size?Sure will.

[robena]

Sure will.

Hum, since we're already speaking of re-encoding, adding a de-logo facility would be extremely nice.

NBC and The CW add now a full line of text over their logo, generally advertising an upcoming show, and it's quite hard to endure. A slight loss of quality would be acceptable if these kind of logos could be removed.

But I realize that is a TALL order. :)

[phd]

I played with some of the logo removal apps. I wasn't thrilled with the results.

Sometime the cure was worse than the illness.

I believe it was with VirtualDub or AVISynth. As scenes varied from dark to light or vice versa, it could look worse

[teddeman]

How about conversion from .ts to h.264?

[qz3fwd]

ts is a container
h.264 is a codec.
they are 2 different things.


How about conversion from .ts to h.264?

[Allstarnz]

so hanging out for this, having real issues finding good software to edit NZ h264 recordings from Freeview.

[joliger]

It's been started. No ETA until we get close to a beta.

I am a registered user of Videoredo and have been waiting a long time for H.264 support. I am also a long time beta tester, having beta tested for MS since Win98. Can I be a beta tester for VideoRedo with H.264 support?

joliger

[phd]

Keep an eye on the Beta section of our forum.
http://www.videoredo.net/msgBoard/showthread.php?t=5363

[robena]

Keep an eye on the Beta section of our forum.
http://www.videoredo.net/msgBoard/showthread.php?t=5363

Aaah! It seems that things will be getting interesting soon.

Can't wait!

[Anole]

NBC and The CW add now a full line of text over their logo, generally advertising an upcoming show, and it's quite hard to endure.

I'm noticing that on HD OTA reception.
I don't think there is a good solution other than blowing up the producers who think that's acceptable!
I could see running that nasty bug for the first minute after returning from commercial...
... but to run it through the whole show...! - :mad:

And the recently seen movement on some channels to cover the lower 1/8th of the screen with a promo for a later show...
...at least those last only seconds...
Makes me want to block their view a little. - :rolleyes:

[phd]

No, it just means that I was provider him with a link to the location and information for Betas. Read nothing further into it.

Aaah! It seems that things will be getting interesting soon.

Can't wait!

[robena]

No, it just means that I was provider him with a link to the location and information for Betas. Read nothing further into it.

Arrg, you're killing me!

[MichaelLAX]

The future of watching content is video downloading and mpeg-4 (H.264) is to video downloading what mpeg-2 was to DVD.

Now with the release of the Haupaugge HD-PVR, we will need MPEG-4 (H.264) editing, and fast! Who's gonna get it to market first?

Why bother with discs, when you can organize and play your library...

http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/hd_pvr.html

[jimguy]

Yes, I just ordered the Hauppage HD-PVR and now I'm really looking forward to an update to Videoredo!
The combination will be HOT!

[hajj_3]

There any ETA yet? its june now:(

[Ktulu]

I got a Hauppage HD-PVR the other day. I set it up and recorded some clips last night. Works great.

Now I need VideoRedo to edit the h.264 files and I'll be golden. Nudge nudge... wink wink.

[laserfan]

I asked in another thread what people were using to edit their h264s, and the silence there was (is) deafening.

If you can't wait for VRD I believe it can (if the recording is clean) be done with DGAVCDec and VirtualDub.

[robena]

I asked in another thread what people were using to edit their h264s, and the silence there was (is) deafening.

If you can't wait for VRD I believe it can (if the recording is clean) be done with DGAVCDec and VirtualDub.

Try TSPE.:

http://www.videohelp.com/tools/TS_Packet_Editor

[daveb]

One approach to dealing with h.264 files (until we get a good editor/transcoder) might be to transcode the h.264 TS file to Mpeg 2 (and edit the mpeg 2). I've tried several transcode apps that say they can transcode h.264, but have not had any luck getting a clean mpeg2 file.

Part of the problem may be that I'm using Dish Network h.264 TS files, which seem to be a little off from the h.264 standard. Anyone know of a working transcode app?

[dvd_maniac]

Try TSPE.:

http://www.videohelp.com/tools/TS_Packet_Editor


Tried it on a file created with the HD-PVR and it would not open it...

Transcoding HD videos to re-encode them just to cut out portions sounds painstakingly long and makes capturing HD pointless I think...

[zaphod7501]

What application did you use to record with. The Hauppauge supplied software seems to have the same problem that the HVR1600-ATSC has: The file starts with a few frames of a previous input (uncleared buffer?) Third party solutions (GB-PVR) don't seem to have the problem.

I don't have one of these (they seem to have skipped the alpha and beta testers) but you could try two things.
A: Make sure to change channels on the source/box before opening the application. (don't fire up arcsoft and then change channels)
B: Try trimming off the start of the file before using TSPE. I don't know if the trim-and-copy function of VRD/TVS will work (you can try) but a pure file splitter like hjsplt should do it. (Someone, somewhere, said they had to do a trim before something could open the file. Sorry, I've been tracking the HD-PVR on several forums and don't remember the specifics)

[cdrw]

One approach to dealing with h.264 files (until we get a good editor/transcoder) might be to transcode the h.264 TS file to Mpeg 2 (and edit the mpeg 2). I've tried several transcode apps that say they can transcode h.264, but have not had any luck getting a clean mpeg2 file.

Part of the problem may be that I'm using Dish Network h.264 TS files, which seem to be a little off from the h.264 standard. Anyone know of a working transcode app?


The only s/w I have found to work is Canopus Procoder 3. I use procoder to convert the ts file to mpeg2 HD (720P) , then use VideoRedo to edit. Somewhat slow, but effective.

[karpodiem]

The only s/w I have found to work is Canopus Procoder 3. I use procoder to convert the ts file to mpeg2 HD (720P) , then use VideoRedo to edit. Somewhat slow, but effective.

any quality loss? What's the process like? I've never used Procoder before.

[phd]

We would be interested in obtaining some clips of H.264 transport streams from around the world. (Not REC files.)

Please PM me if you would be interested in supplying samples.

Samples should be no more 30-60 seconds and 100MB.

I would appreciate the following information:
What country do you live in?
How do you capture?
What capture device do you use?

Please PM me regarding samples you could provide.
Do not post links to download from other sites.
If we need the samples I will inform you via response in a PM and they can be uploaded to our FTP.
Please do not upload to file sharing URL. We have an FTP for samples.

[J.B.]

Hey, this sounds good!

Many European AVC TS streams can be found here: http://x264.nl/h.264.samples/

There are pseudo interlaced movie broadcasts and true interlaced and 720p50 sports broadcasts from several countries.

[cdrw]

any quality loss? What's the process like? I've never used Procoder before.

TMPGenc 4.0 Express works better and much cheaper. You can convert to blueray, dvd, mpeg, quicktime, wmv, and a few others

http://tmpgenc.pegasys-inc.com/en/product/te4xp.html

[HDTVNut]

If you can't wait for VRD I believe it can (if the recording is clean) be done with DGAVCDec and VirtualDub.

That is not acceptable for a lot of people since it involves re-encoding. Also, for captures off of Dish Network, it won't work because the x264 codec doesn't support all of the features of H.264 that Dish is using (displays "PAFF + spatial direct mode is not implemented"). Finally, using VirtualDub with CoreAVC to decode Dish Network captures has always resulted in audio sync problems for me (which I blame on VirtualDub itself, as CoreAVC, AviSynth, and the DirectShow() filter used without VirtualDub does not have this problem).

I've had decent luck with the TS packet snippers. TSRemux was the first one I tried and it's worked for me so I haven't switched. But I only need to ship the beginning and ends off of movies, for cutting commercials out of a TV show it would be painful.

I've been able to use the tools in Nero 7 Ultimate to re-encode most H.264 captures from Dish into something else successfully. However, it would not produce proper videos for my Playstation Portable. For that, I had to use CoreAVC, an AviSynth script using the DirectShow() filter, and ffmpeg on the command line. And as it avoids use of VirtualDub, audio stays in sync.

[thecaretaker]

I have a Technomate 6900 HD receiver and VideoReDo is able to process Standard Definition files. But it just doesn't handle High Definition.

In one post, it was suggested that we provide different files.

The first is SD (Standard Definition) which VideoReDo can handle (the .trf file is basically a .ts transport stream. I usually rename it .ts)
http://www.thecaretakers.net/BBC1.zip (35mb)

The second is a HD (High Definition) file from the same recorder which VideoReDo cannot handle.
http://www.thecaretakers.net/BBCHD.zip (45mb)

I really really really need these HD files to play on my PC. So please, if anyone at VideoReDo can add this feature, you'll put me out of my misery!

Meanwhile, if anybody can find a way of even just playing these HD files on a PC (on Vista Ultimate) please tell me how to do it. I have messed up my PC on numerous occasions trying.

[RTK_lost_password]

We would be interested in obtaining some clips of H.264 transport streams from around the world. (Not REC files.)

Please PM me if you would be interested in supplying samples.

Samples should be no more 30-60 seconds and 100MB.

I would appreciate the following information:
What country do you live in?
How do you capture?
What capture device do you use?

phd,
can you elaborate on who "We" is? i don't have time to visit the forum too much (which explains my forum name) but before i provide any files i'd just like to know who or what product they are being used to develop.
regards,
rtk

[RotorEX]

Seems you have sufficient samples, so i've removed the links ;)

[Zeus]

The second is a HD (High Definition) file from the same recorder which VideoReDo cannot handle.
http://www.thecaretakers.net/BBCHD.zip (45mb)

I really really really need these HD files to play on my PC. So please, if anyone at VideoReDo can add this feature, you'll put me out of my misery!

Meanwhile, if anybody can find a way of even just playing these HD files on a PC (on Vista Ultimate) please tell me how to do it. I have messed up my PC on numerous occasions trying.

I've managed to get your BBC HD file to play on Vista with no problems.

After unzipping it there is a BBC HD @1036c9d8.trp file.

Find the programme tsremux and run the trp file through it and save it as a .ts file.

Result perfection!!!


You can get tsremux from here

http://www.videohelp.com/tools/TsRemux

[RotorEX]

I can post more samples if required.

[phd]

We is VideoReDo.


phd,
can you elaborate on who "We" is? i don't have time to visit the forum too much (which explains my forum name) but before i provide any files i'd just like to know who or what product they are being used to develop.
regards,
rtk

[hajj_3]

hope you can add support for the ITVHD that rotorex posted, think its a h264 stream but in a h224 container or something so that only freesat sattelite boxes can receive it, would be good if videoredo could read these directly without having to use tsremux first.

Hope to see a beta version of videoredo with mpeg4 support soon, the world has been waiting for this:)

[bits]

hope you can add support for the ITVHD that rotorex posted, think its a h264 stream but in a h224 container or something so that only freesat sattelite boxes can receive it, would be good if videoredo could read these directly without having to use tsremux first.

Hope to see a beta version of videoredo with mpeg4 support soon, the world has been waiting for this:)
I think 'the world has been waiting for this:)' is a bit over stated!

[phd]

Thank you for your contributions.

We have sufficient samples for now.


We would be interested in obtaining some clips of H.264 transport streams from around the world. (Not REC files.)

Please PM me if you would be interested in supplying samples.

Samples should be no more 30-60 seconds and 100MB.

I would appreciate the following information:
What country do you live in?
How do you capture?
What capture device do you use?

Please PM me regarding samples you could provide.
Do not post links to download from other sites.
If we need the samples I will inform you via response in a PM and they can be uploaded to our FTP.
Please do not upload to file sharing URL. We have an FTP for samples.

[Steve614]

We is VideoReDo.

And all your sample are belong to us! ;)

[phd]

Touche ;)

[Allstarnz]

did you manage to get any samples from New Zealand DVB-T Freeview|HD?

We use MPEG4 TS files (in 720p, 1080i, and 576i/p), with AAC-LATM and (sometimes) AC3 audio.

I'm not too worried about the audio, more something reliable to edit the video.

Please let me know if you need a sample.

[lrhorer]

I am very interested in possibly using VRD to recode MPEG-II streams to H.264 streams to save space. Of course, quality is top priority. I don't want to recode if there is any significantly noticeable loss in quality. Assuming, however, one can save perhaps 30% to 50% on space and file transfer times, I would very much like to try recoding MPEG-II .ts streams to h.264 for storage on my video server. These will almost exclusively be used to transfer to my TiVos for playback, so the resultant output must be compatible with the Series III class TiVo's h.264 decoders. I would happily be a beta tester for this purpose, and at the very least I would want to know as soon as the utility becomes available.

All of which leads me to my next question. I know it's been asked before, but it's been a little while, and I know it is on everybody's mind:

Is there a projected release date yet?

[phd]

We have NZ samples. Thanks.


did you manage to get any samples from New Zealand DVB-T Freeview|HD?

We use MPEG4 TS files (in 720p, 1080i, and 576i/p), with AAC-LATM and (sometimes) AC3 audio.

I'm not too worried about the audio, more something reliable to edit the video.

Please let me know if you need a sample.

[Allstarnz]

We have NZ samples. Thanks.

Great, I can't wait. Currently I am very frustrated, as only h264 cutter will work, and it breaks the moment it encounters a recording error. I just want to use it to cut out ads more than anything.

[palomino3000]

Hi everyone!
I have two sat receiver, Vantage 7100HD and Ctech5000HD.
My recordinds is in HD-h264 format.
I have 50 recordinds to edit! Please support this H264 HD soon!!!!
I pay you what you want for this!! :)

[mxtx]

Do the developers need any dish network h.264 streams? If needed I could provide streams as large as you would need from both 1080i channels and 720p h.264 dish net.

[Boomstick]

I vote for H264 as well as WMV, AVI

[palomino3000]

yep!!
this thread counts 20750 !!! VRD go go gooooooooooooo

[thecaretaker]

I emailed a couple of samples from a Technomate TM6900 HD Combo. VideoReDo handles SD content from an external hard drive, I'd really appreciate it if it was able to handle HD content too.

I hope you can make my dream come true :-)

[thecaretaker]

I've managed to get your BBC HD file to play on Vista with no problems.

After unzipping it there is a BBC HD @1036c9d8.trp file.

Find the programme tsremux and run the trp file through it and save it as a .ts file.

Result perfection!!!


You can get tsremux from here

http://www.videohelp.com/tools/TsRemux

You are a superstar. Thank you so much. I'm getting some small like interlace issue on moving pictures, but this is the closest I've ever been to watching these files on my PC. Well done.

[SamuriHL]

Looking forward to h264 support as I just picked up an HD PVR. Absolutely incredible piece of hardware but would obviously love to be able to use VRD to cut commercials. I typically use ShowAnalyzer to create a VRD project while it's recording and then open the project in VRD to verify the cut points and write out the edited file. This isn't a "when is it coming" post, just a "I'm glad you guys are working on it" post. :) ShowAnalyzer will have a version out soon that does h264. That's one piece of the puzzle. I truly can't wait for the day when VRD supports it, as well. That will be a good day. :) Keep up the hard work!!

[hajj_3]

can you give us an update videoredo, its mid september now. Any alpha's we can test, badly need to remove some ads from some h264 720p .ts files as my harddrives are filling up.

[DanR]

Looking forward to h264 support as I just picked up an HD PVR.What capturing software are you using with it?

[SamuriHL]

What capturing software are you using with it?

I'm using the trial of SageTV right now and will very likely be buying a license for it soon. It's working VERY VERY well for recording. I've got it set to about 5mbps for capturing off my cable box and the results are fantastic. If you need a clip or anything like that I'd be happy to send you one. For now I'm using another software to cut the video but it's all manual processing and not nearly as good as VRD in any regard. Let me know if I can help your efforts in any way. Thanks!

[hajj_3]

i have a national geo 720p .ts with ads in but h264 cutter butchers it, if i try and encode the new .ts file with ads removed it will crash megui and gordian knot, h264 cutter wont cut the ads compliantly, wanting a new version of videoredo desperately:(

[bits]

I'm using the trial of SageTV right now and will very likely be buying a license for it soon. It's working VERY VERY well for recording. I've got it set to about 5mbps for capturing off my cable box and the results are fantastic. If you need a clip or anything like that I'd be happy to send you one. For now I'm using another software to cut the video but it's all manual processing and not nearly as good as VRD in any regard. Let me know if I can help your efforts in any way. Thanks!
What is the software that you are using to cut the h264? Please PM me.

[DanR]

If you need a clip or anything like that I'd be happy to send you one. Let me know if I can help your efforts in any way. Thanks!Please upload a short clip ( < 100 MB ) to our ftp site.

FTP instructions are here: http://www.videoredo.net/msgBoard/showthread.php?t=84

Thanks.

[SamuriHL]

Please upload a short clip ( < 100 MB ) to our ftp site.

FTP instructions are here: http://www.videoredo.net/msgBoard/showthread.php?t=84

Thanks.

Will do shortly. Thanks!

[SamuriHL]

I've uploaded it and sent an email to support. It's in the samuri directory. Thanks!!

[harrysamuel]

I am thinking of buying a AVCHD camcorder. Does VideoReDo support this new standard? I captured a baseball game to watch later, first time off HDTV, its 27 gig. I have asked before, other than authoring a DVD when will VideoReDo Support compression when saving to a mpg file. AVCHD might compress it and work for me as well. Is AVCHD in the future for VideoReDo?

Thanks, Harry

[SamuriHL]

They appear to be working on it still. From what I can tell they started looking into AVC support over a year ago and I've read statements that seem like it *COULD* (read that as only POSSIBLE) release a version to support it by the end of the year. There's never been any kind of official announcement as to when it'll be released as far as I know. But I do know they are hard at work on it and when it's released I'm sure it'll be extremely sweet. So, hang in there. Give them a chance to do it right. :)

[hajj_3]

harrysamuel, download: TMPGEnc XPress 4.5.2.255

That can read mpeg4 and avchd and can edit it and save as .mpg or .avi etc. Only thing it cant do is save as .ts without re-encoding which i need it for as i want full quality with ads removed but for re-encoding its perfect.

[jgourd]

I just got the HD-PVR to use witj Sage. Now I am jonesin' for H.264 editing in VRD+.

[SamuriHL]

All we can do is continue waiting on that one.

[radiodj105]

May I ask something? I own a decklink card with SDI Input. I use Metus to capture on H264. I can't import these files with video redo tv suite. Do you have any idea of what's wrong?

[DanR]

TVSuite does not yet support H264 source files. What kind of files are you creating with Metus?

[puravida]

DanR,

Can you give those of us anxiously awaiting the H264 support a hint about when to expect it :-) Will we have a great weekend, a happier Thanksgiving, a merrier Christmas / Chanukah or a greater new year? Any hint would be appreciated and Im sure it will be well worth the wait.

[SamuriHL]

DanR,

I just got the updated driver for my HD PVR which records with 5.1DD audio now. I'm going to create a new clip for you guys this weekend and upload it to the ftp site. I'll notify support when it's up there. The first clip I gave you guys (recorded with SageTV) was with 2 channel AAC audio. This will be 5.1DD AC3 audio. Just to give you guys some more material to test with. Thanks!

[SamuriHL]

Sorry for the delay. I've uploaded a new clip for you guys in the samurihl folder. Recorded with SageTV using optical input to give us AC3 audio in the AVC transport stream. I absolutely LOVE this thing now! The only component missing is of course decent editing but I can be patient and wait. Enjoy the clip!

[palomino3000]

DanR,

Can you give those of us anxiously awaiting the H264 support a hint about when to expect it :-) Will we have a great weekend, a happier Thanksgiving, a merrier Christmas / Chanukah or a greater new year? Any hint would be appreciated and Im sure it will be well worth the wait.

subscribe.....

when when when....

[DanR]

We are not going to publish a new target date for H264 support. We are in the midst of development, but there are some challenges still to be solved. These may happen quickly or they may not. H.264 support remains a priority for us and we are working very hard to get something out as soon as possible.

[Ktulu]

Thanks Dan. A little update every now and then is very reassuring.

[SamuriHL]

We are not going to publish a new target date for H264 support. We are in the midst of development, but there are some challenges still to be solved. These may happen quickly or they may not. H.264 support remains a priority for us and we are working very hard to get something out as soon as possible.

As a developer I can appreciate that response. :) Good luck overcoming those challenges.

[robena]

H.264 support remains a priority for us and we are working very hard to get something out as soon as possible.

That's good to know, thanks for the update.

[puravida]

Thank you DanR.

[palomino3000]

any news for this h264?

[SamuriHL]

any news for this h264?

Just a guess here but, um, "they're working on it" should just about cover it. It doesn't seem very likely, does it, that they'd have a fully working H.264 solution and release it quietly so that NO ONE knows. ;) Keep an eye on the forums. No news should be interpreted as "they're still working on it".

[Paul Evans]

Like everyone else now looking for enhancement to be able to edit H.264... please soon!

[digitalman161]

When this support is available, will it be a version upgrade or just a patch upgrade? ie. Will existing customer have to pay for this feature? Thanks.

[DanR]

When this support is available, will it be a version upgrade or just a patch upgrade? ie. Will existing customer have to pay for this feature? Thanks.It will be part of a new version of TVSuite. Packaging and pricing have not yet been established although, as usual, existing users will receive a discounted upgrade option.

[joliger]

It will be part of a new version of TVSuite. Packaging and pricing have not yet been established although, as usual, existing users will receive a discounted upgrade option.

That's truly a shame. I passed on "tv suite" because all I really wanted was a good video editor. Now it's going to be shoved down me if I want H264 support regardless of the fact that I don't want that package. To me, this truly tells me that VideoRedo is a dead product. Others are also working on h264 support, so I guess I'll be forced to abandon ships. Truly a shame.

joliger

[Anole]

That's a shame, joliger. But in fairness, I think you should wait for the product to be released.

I was worried it would be a totally separate product, and -not- an upgrade! :rolleyes:

I was authoring DVDs long before VRD got that feature.
I still mostly author the other way.
However, every once in a while, the VRD solution is too painless to ignore, and I do use it.
So, if they should choose to add h.264 to the existing product and make it a superset editor, I'll play. ;)

Having spent several decades in hardware and software development, it's hard to fault or second-guess the VRD guys.

[SamuriHL]

I think you underestimate the amount of work involved in adding h.264 support. Of course they're going to charge for it, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I'm just glad they're giving us upgrade pricing for it. You can switch to another product if you like, but, Video ReDo has shown to be the absolute best, easiest solution for home video editing out there. I've tried many editors, and most of them are extremely complex to use or don't have the functionality that I need. Video ReDo always works, and even fixes streams that no other editor can touch. If they bring the same level of service to h.264, and I have to assume it's taking this long because they are, then I think we're going to have an incredible editor on our hands when it's finally released. This is just an end user's opinion, but, I do a LOT of video editing on a daily basis and Video ReDo has never let me down. Ever.

[bits]

I think you underestimate the amount of work involved in adding h.264 support. Of course they're going to charge for it, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I'm just glad they're giving us upgrade pricing for it. You can switch to another product if you like, but, Video ReDo has shown to be the absolute best, easiest solution for home video editing out there. I've tried many editors, and most of them are extremely complex to use or don't have the functionality that I need. Video ReDo always works, and even fixes streams that no other editor can touch. If they bring the same level of service to h.264, and I have to assume it's taking this long because they are, then I think we're going to have an incredible editor on our hands when it's finally released. This is just an end user's opinion, but, I do a LOT of video editing on a daily basis and Video ReDo has never let me down. Ever.
I agree completely!

[laserfan]

That's truly a shame. I passed on "tv suite" because all I really wanted was a good video editor. Now it's going to be shoved down me if I want H264 support regardless of the fact that I don't want that package. To me, this truly tells me that VideoRedo is a dead product. Others are also working on h264 support, so I guess I'll be forced to abandon ships. Truly a shame.It's going to be "shoved down you"??? How do you know that??? "Dead product"???

I nominate this for "most shameful post ever"!!!!! :p

[SamuriHL]

It's going to be "shoved down you"??? How do you know that??? "Dead product"???

I nominate this for "most shameful post ever"!!!!! :p

He's saying he doesn't want the TV Suite and just wants the basic Video ReDo to have the h.264 editing capability. And because that's not what's happening he considers it a "dead product" which is ridiculous, yes. While I understand and appreciate the merits of wanting a simple editor with none of the "extras", the fact remains that TV Suite has never gotten in the way of good old fashioned basic editing. The interface isn't cluttered up with things that are unnecessary for basic editing. In fact, it's hard to distinguish between TV Suite and regular ReDo unless you really look hard. So, in this case, the complaints aren't justified at all. Just because there's extra features in TV Suite doesn't mean it can't be used exactly the same way as before. Most people, myself most definitely included, consider this an incredibly good thing. More functionality without screwing up the basics. If only more companies were able to offer that!!

[deco]

Im just curious if this upgrade will be available before xmas so i can buy myself the upgrade as a personal present :)

or just a ETA?

-deco

[Anole]

VideoReDo and the TVsuite (which added DVD authoring), went through extensive Beta testing and user feedback.
That apparently hasn't even begun, yet.
So, an Xmas release is about as likely as winning the lottery. - :D

I recall the TVsuite test cycle. It was extensive.
And what came out the other end of the pipeline, was a pretty good product.
Of course, the more of us end users who play with a thing, the more tweaks we request. :cool:
So, the current TVsuite is quite robust.

[palomino3000]

I have recorded an hundred of clips in h264 HD that I must edit !
I have 2 hard disk quite full!!!
I hope videoredo ultimate the h264 capability before xmas!!!
That is the big gift for my holliday!!!
I hope....

[Keat]

I don't mind the idea of paying for an upgrade to get H.264 support, but I am disappointed that this feature is only planned for the TVSuite product. All of my video interests lie in HD video. I have no need for DVD authoring features. VideoRedo Plus is a much better product for me...except it lacks H.264 support.

[robena]

I don't mind paying any amount for H.264 support. VideoRedo is such an exceptional product that a $300 price tag would not be too much for me. Or even more...

[bits]

I don't mind paying any amount for H.264 support. VideoRedo is such an exceptional product that a $300 price tag would not be too much for me. Or even more...
I agree with your point but Whoa there.....I would like h264 editing capability as well and I am willing to pay for it but $300+ is well....about 6X more that I would be willing to cough up. You must have a really big Want (none of this video stuff is really a Need) or deep pockets.

[Canuckgold]

I upgrade to TVSuite from VideoRedoPlus some time ago because the DVD burning capability was a really handy addition. I'd been using WinDVD Creator previously but it had limitations. I've been regularly lurking in the forum waiting for some news on H.264, hoping a release is imminent, only to be disappointed time and time again. I guess the technical side is quite complicated if it's taking this long to complete. This thread was started way back in 2006 so the strong desire for this feature not exactly a surprise. It would be nice if the developers would provide some clue about timing of even a Beta release. Still waiting............

CG :rolleyes:

[hajj_3]

well the last info on release dates said before the end of the year, its 2nd dec now, u guys aint got long yet:(

Just think how many sales you could get this christmas!

[SamuriHL]

I would say that's very unlikely at this point, wouldn't you? :)

[hajj_3]

well if they pay their employees in mince pies they might get done coding quicker:P

PLEASE give us some new videoredo guys!!

[bits]

well if they pay their employees in mince pies they might get done coding quicker:P

PLEASE give us some new videoredo guys!!
Be carefull what you wish for! I think the VRD crew is at the top of list and I for one DO NOT WANT NEW VRD guys.

[laserfan]

Be carefull what you wish for! I think the VRD crew is at the top of list and I for one DO NOT WANT NEW VRD guys.I think (hope?) hajj just missed a comma in his comment?! ;)

In the meantime, has anyone here tried Avidemux to edit h264? I've used it w/264 tho not to edit...

[bits]

I think (hope?) hajj just missed a comma in his comment?! ;)

In the meantime, has anyone here tried Avidemux to edit h264? I've used it w/264 tho not to edit...
Have not tried Avidemux for cutting/trimming h264 and I suspect it does not have that capability. Last update was back in July and I have heard no reference to this software in terms of h264 editing capability. I looked over the wiki and it is clear that you can encode to h264 but found no reference what so ever to editing h264.

Since you have it installed it seems that you should be able to run a quick test and report back.

[SamuriHL]

I've been using H264TSCutter with ok success. It's a lot of manual work, though. You add the clips you want to keep and it spits out a new TS for you. It's not even close to what a proper Video ReDo version with h264 support will give us. But, it suffices for now.

[gjblack71]

I have used avidemux on h264 in avi containers. Worked reasonably well. Audio stayed in sync, no recoding needed so very fast (like videoredo) however it wasn't able to cut frame accurately so the cuts were not exactly where I'd like (but close enough.)

[bits]

I have used avidemux on h264 in avi containers. Worked reasonably well. Audio stayed in sync, no recoding needed so very fast (like videoredo) however it wasn't able to cut frame accurately so the cuts were not exactly where I'd like (but close enough.)
I tried a mp4 h264 file and found that it will cut but only every 120 frames. Almost better than nothing...........

[hajj_3]

latest version of TMPGEnc XPress 4.6.2 can open mpeg4 and can transcode to another format, unfortunately, cant save it as an uncompressed .ts file.

[laserfan]

I tried a mp4 h264 file and found that it will cut but only every 120 frames. Almost better than nothing...........
I tried it on a .m2ts file (blu-ray) and got an error "You didn't cut on an I-frame".

When I make a 264, I do so w/24 frame GOPs, so cutting on I-frames might be acceptable, but if your videos have longer GOPs this is a severe limitation and nowhere near what we want. I mean, that's why we like VRD!

So I guess bits you're right. Worth zippo for editing (Avidemux, that is). :o

[daveb]

I'm finding that h.264 files from various sources are not necessarily the same. For instance, my primary two sources are Dish Network h.264 HD files, and h.264 files generated by my Canon HD camcorder.

Nero Vision 8 & 9 will read and edit files from both sources.

Ulead Visual Studio 11 will open and edit some Dish files, but is very slow. It does quite well with the Canon files.

Imagemixer 3 SE, which came bundled with the Canon camcorder will read and edit the Canon files, but crashes when you try to open a Dish file.

It's no wonder the process of building a version of VRD that handles h.264 is going slowly. There's no point in releasing an app that won't read all these various flavors of h.264 and write a standardized h.264 file that follows the specification.

[phd]

Just curious. I thought Dish files were now encrypted.

Are you using an old version?

Have you modded your DVR?

[HDTVNut]

Have you modded your DVR?

There is a commercial modification available called an "R5000-HD" which basically intercepts the data stream right before it is about to be decoded (by the audio and video decoders) and sends it out a USB port. Over on the PC side the streams are remuxed into an MPEG-2 transport stream. This modification is not available for all Dish receivers as some of the newer, lower-cost receivers use more highly integrated ASICs which do not give access to the unencrypted but still compressed audio and video streams. My modified receiver is actually a non-DVR receiver (the 211), but they updated the firmware for it so you can add an external USB drive and essentially get full DVR functionality for a one-time $40 charge. I don't think anybody was ripping HD content off their DVR's hard drive - last time I was doing that (and it was years ago) it only worked on the SD DVRs, not the HD ones.

Dish has recently switched the remaining few channels of their HD programming which were MPEG-2 to H.264, so the amount of HD content I was capturing in H.264 just went from around 50&#37; to 100%, and the current version of VideoRedo is now useless for editing any future captures of HD content for me (except OTA captures, which I rarely do).

[daveb]

Some of the Dish channels that use 8PSK modulation and transmit h.264 files are not encrypted. I have a receiver module that hooks to my computer via USB. I use an ATI graphics card to output to my HDTV.

The ATI card supports hardware acceleration of h.264, but I've had better playback results using AVC Core software codec. I play back with Media Player Classic or Zoom Player.

Best application I've found to trim or edit the h.264 files is Nero Vision, but it is a pretty slow process and only works if the Dish transport stream recording is good without many flaws. So far, I've found nothing that is the equivalent of VRD Quickstream Fix that will fix a flawed file.

Also, I didn't have any luck at all with h.264 file processing until I upgraded my computer to a core 2 quad processor. The h.264 stuff is really processor intensive.

Anyone using one of the streaming network boxes with hardware processing of h.264 files? I haven't looked for a while, but the early releases that advertised hardware h.264 decoding didn't appear to work too well according to people on some of the audio/video forums.

[DanR]

Some of the Dish channels that use 8PSK modulation and transmit h.264 files are not encrypted. Have you uploaded some .ts samples for us to evaluate yet?

[Greg]

Have you uploaded some .ts samples for us to evaluate yet?

Do you need more h.264 Dishnet files uploaded?

[DanR]

If you uploaded them already then Pat probably knows where they are. I just don't see them on my system. Will let you know if we need new samples.

Thanks.

[phd]

daveb & Greg: Is this an unmodded Dish receiver producing unencrypted H.264 video?

If so, please PM me.

[daveb]

Dan,

I haven't uploaded any samples. I can put some samples on an external site for you to upload, or if you provide me with a link, I can upload them to you directly.

Give me some idea of sample size needed, and I'll try and record the proper size directly, rather than with any cut or trim operations. I can get them with varying bit rates. Most are 1440 x 1080 pixels with bit rates in the neighborhood of 5 - 6 Mb/sec.

[phd]

Could you record a sample containing each type?

Each sample should be no more 30-60 seconds and 100MB.

You can upload them to our FTP.
ftp://upload:upload@videoredo.net/

Create a folder with a unique name and place the files in it.

Let us know when it has been successfully uploaded.

Please include a notepad .TXT files containing the information about the files in the folder.

[FRiZzo]

Sent you a pm to a link to my dishnetwork source

Duration : 29mn 59s
Overal bit rate : 5480 Kbps

Video
ID : 5410 (0x1522)
Menu ID : 129 (0x81)
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : Main@L4.0
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 4
Duration : 29mn 59s
Bit rate : 4878 Kbps
Width : 1440 pixels
Height : 1080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16/9
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Standard : Component
Colorimetry : 4:2:0
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Top Field First

Audio
ID : 5411 (0x1523)
Menu ID : 129 (0x81)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Bit rate mode : CBR
Bit rate : 384 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Rear: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz

[mxtx]

I uploaded 3 samples to the ftp- folder is Dishnet-h264-vip211-r5000. The samples came from TNThd, HBOhd and Showtime hd. Dishnetwork just switched over to mpeg4/h264 on these channels (they were mpeg2 until a few days ago).

[phd]

rxtx:
Are you using a receiver modded with an R5000?

[robena]

Best application I've found to trim or edit the h.264 files is Nero Vision, but it is a pretty slow process and only works if the Dish transport stream recording is good without many flaws. So far, I've found nothing that is the equivalent of VRD Quickstream Fix that will fix a flawed file..

You should try TSPE:

http://www.bitstreamtools.com/

It needs to have CoreAVC installed to view Dish caps.

The trial lasts 45 days, hopefully (hint, hint!) enough for VR H.264 to be available, at least on a beta basis.

TSPE does not recode like Nero, and will be much faster.

[SamuriHL]

You should try TSPE:

http://www.bitstreamtools.com/

It needs to have CoreAVC installed to view Dish caps.

The trial lasts 45 days, hopefully (hint, hint!) enough for VR H.264 to be available, at least on a beta basis.

TSPE does not recode like Nero, and will be much faster.

Well that's quite the little toy you got there! It supports EDL files which, um, can be made now for h.264 files. :) Hmm, this could be a useful temporary solution for commercial cutting for me until VRD is updated. Thanks for the info!

[mxtx]

rxtx:
Are you using a receiver modded with an R5000?

PHD -- that was from a receiver modded with a r5000

[daveb]

Pat,

I have the files ready to upload, but am not sure how to create the directories and do the upload using Windows explorer. I can get into the site and move around, but that's about it.

Would you post the address, login, and password? If I have that, I can access the site using traditional FTP tools.

dave

[phd]

Here are the upload instructions
http://www.videoredo.net/msgBoard/showthread.php?t=84

[daveb]

Pat,

Uploaded 2 Dish and one Canon HF100 camcorder h.264 30 second transport stream clips to "Dish-Canon h264 Samples" directory. Text file with details included. Hope this helps the project.

Dave

[phd]

Thanks. I got them.

[hoojoo]

Would you be interested in samples of European H264 broadcasts? I can provide samples of SkyHD from UK and PremiereHD from Germany.

[phd]

hoojoo:
No thanks. We currently have some samples from both the UK and Germany

[hoojoo]

Cool. I guess I should have read the entire thread first. I see that you have samples from all over the world already. :)

For those discussing TSPE: it is basically just a glorified Hex editor. It has no video decoding or encoding capability. So frame accurate editing is out of the question, but it should be adequate for trimming or removing ads. This is why when VRD gets H.264 editing it will be a joyous occasion. :D

[SamuriHL]

For those discussing TSPE: it is basically just a glorified Hex editor. It has no video decoding or encoding capability. So frame accurate editing is out of the question, but it should be adequate for trimming or removing ads. This is why when VRD gets H.264 editing it will be a joyous occasion. :D

Yea, I played around with it. It doesn't work well for me. I get all kinds of weird artifacts at the cut points. Oh well. I'll wait for VRD.

[jfcarbel]

Will the VRD h.264 editing features allow for editing of unencrypted Blu-Ray h.264 streams?

And I am hoping it would not reencode and leave the DTS MA or TrueHD audio untouched in the cutting process. An option to transcode the audio to AC3 after cutting would also be pretty useful.

[DanR]

Will the VRD h.264 editing features allow for editing of unencrypted Blu-Ray h.264 streams?
That's on the roadmap, but the initial releases will support off-the-air transport and .mp4 formats.


And I am hoping it would not reencode and leave the DTS MA or TrueHD audio untouched in the cutting process.
No decision on these yet. Initial releases will support MPEG audio, AC3, and AAC audio.

[hajj_3]

are you videoredo guys ready to give us an ETA of a beta version yet?

[palomino3000]

...................

[albas]

Hello. I am new to the forum and I am definately going to buy the program if MPEG4,
H264 editing is added to the program. I am from Norway and our TV broadcasts are in MPEG4, H264 with audio in AAC-HE (Latm/Laos type). Do you have samples from Norway? If not, please let me know where i can upload one.

[phd]

None from Norway. PM me for sample and upload information.

[guppyman]

Any word on when? My hard drive is filling up with files that need editing:rolleyes:

Can't wait!

[palomino3000]

My hard drive is filling up with files that need editing:rolleyes:
Can't wait!

me too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
date date date...........

[DanR]

date date date...........
Soon, soon, soon. Still looking at a few weeks here.

[JungleBoy]

If you want to edit h264 streams (BBC HD) then try TS Packet Editor.
http://www.videohelp.com/tools/TS_Packet_Editor
The current version 0.700 has a 30 day trial period but there's also the free 0.300 version. Both versions have a nasty habit of crashing when you move the file location pointer along - so move the location pointer along slowly. Use the +IF and -IF buttons to set the cut locations. The only way I've found to fix continuity errors (in the h264 stream) is to cut them out.

It has a what they call a Frankencrap mode where you can create a good edit from 2 source files with errors. The 2 source files need to be recorded from 2 satellite systems at the same time but separate locations (to avoid noise I assume) but I haven't tried this.

For conversion to MKV/x264 I use RipBot264. For a 1hour h264 stream (1440x1080i 16Mbps 7.5Gbytes) it'll take about 6 hours to do a 2 pass 3210Kbps conversion on a fast Core 2 Duo processor to MKV/x264 1280x720p 1.5Gbytes.

[joliger]

He's saying he doesn't want the TV Suite and just wants the basic Video ReDo to have the h.264 editing capability. And because that's not what's happening he considers it a "dead product" which is ridiculous, yes. While I understand and appreciate the merits of wanting a simple editor with none of the "extras", the fact remains that TV Suite has never gotten in the way of good old fashioned basic editing. The interface isn't cluttered up with things that are unnecessary for basic editing. In fact, it's hard to distinguish between TV Suite and regular ReDo unless you really look hard. So, in this case, the complaints aren't justified at all. Just because there's extra features in TV Suite doesn't mean it can't be used exactly the same way as before. Most people, myself most definitely included, consider this an incredibly good thing. More functionality without screwing up the basics. If only more companies were able to offer that!!

TV Suite added dvd authoring to Videoredo. H264 support is simply not used in dvds, and never will be. If Videoredo is NOT a dead product, it should be upgraded with H264 support along with the TV Suite line. As I remember, Videoredo was promised to be upgraded to the same level as tv suite as just an editor, but this was never done. I remember Dan posting this as part of the plan. As it is now, Videoredo IS a dead product that hasn't been undated in ages, and the big "VideoReDo" should be removed from the top of this page and replaced with "TV Suite"!

joliger

[hajj_3]

joliger, it was updated a few months ago with the same codebase as the tv suite version. They will be adding h264 to both the videoredo plus AND the videoredo tv suite versions so no need to worry. You will of course have to pay an upgrade fee as it will be a new version number.

I personally dont see much use for the tv suite for myself as i'd rather use a standalone app for creating dvds if i ever needed to or imgburn to burn to dvd but for some novices the tv suite is a good idea.

Hopefully not too long till the h264 compatible versions of videoredo are out.

[thardie]

Hi guys,

I've posted another FTA recording. This one is of NBC's uplink feed. They run 15 MBit H.264 and 4 streams of AAC. The file is on your FTP site as "NBC East uplink.ts". Let me know if you need any more info.

[phd]

Please check with us before submitting unsolicited files.


Hi guys,

I've posted another FTA recording. This one is of NBC's uplink feed. They run 15 MBit H.264 and 4 streams of AAC. The file is on your FTP site as "NBC East uplink.ts". Let me know if you need any more info.

[wahzoo5]

it's been months since I used this ap. I came here to see if they actually added h264 like one of the senior members stated back in 09/07. So, I uninstalled mine today. I've wasted money on worse things. This ap is a dinosaur it's outdated. There's a hand full of free open source apz that do what this one does, with h264 videos. To think I'd pay them more money for something I can get that does the same work for free? They screwed up should've done it bout a year ago. Then they could have got some more money out of me.

[bits]

it's been months since I used this ap. I came here to see if they actually added h264 like one of the senior members stated back in 09/07. So, I uninstalled mine today. I've wasted money on worse things. This ap is a dinosaur it's outdated. There's a hand full of free open source apz that do what this one does, with h264 videos. To think I'd pay them more money for something I can get that does the same work for free? They screwed up should've done it bout a year ago. Then they could have got some more money out of me.
You are mistaken, there are no free or payware software apps that can do what VRD does for mepg2 for h264.

There are plenty of free h264 decoders and encoders but none that can cut/trim/fix h264 files with the ease that VRD does with mpeg2. If you purchased VRD for something other than mpeg2 then no wonder you are not impressed with it.

[kasper]

You are mistaken, there are no free or payware software apps that can do what VRD does for mepg2 for h264.

There are plenty of free h264 decoders and encoders but none that can cut/trim/fix h264 files with the ease that VRD does with mpeg2. If you purchased VRD for something other than mpeg2 then no wonder you are not impressed with it.

Yes

But when are VideoReDo (and others for that matter) going to stop living in the good old MPeg 2 world (just because the states are backward and keep using it) and recognize that the rest of the world has moved on.

[bits]

Yes

But when are VideoReDo (and others for that matter) going to stop living in the good old MPeg 2 world (just because the states are backward and keep using it) and recognize that the rest of the world has moved on.
IMHO and it seems rather obvious is that it is not easy to do and there may be some costly licensing issues. I tend to believe h264 was chosen not because of some superior encoding capability but because it is a bugger to edit.

Also, mpeg2 is still king of the hill because well it is still king of the hill! h264 is still small potatoes, yes it is growing in use but it is still small potatoes, especially here in the US.

Lastly, many folks have blindly fallen into the trap of thinking h264 is almost magical in its abilities and are clamoring for something they really know nothing about. This is of course is just my opinion. There are parts of Europe where there is more of a need for h264 editing capability.

[zaphod7501]

Yes

But when are VideoReDo (and others for that matter) going to stop living in the good old MPeg 2 world (just because the states are backward and keep using it) and recognize that the rest of the world has moved on.
Well, all DVDs are mpeg2. Virtually all PC tuner cards (but one) use mpeg2 hardware encoders for cable recording and capture from set-top-boxes since DRM will continue to make digital cable recording problematic.

As long as DVDs are the backup medium, then mpeg2 editors will be used. This may change eventually but not for several years.

An interesting product would be an editor that converts from h264 to mpeg2 as it edits. It would avoid the need to directly edit the h264 stream: first convert, then edit.

[schmante zuba]

I have been considering buying a new camcorder. It's a tossup between the Canon HG20 (AVCHD) or Canon FS100 (MOV / MPEG).

I'd like the ability to edit easily - so I will require the camera I buy to be compatible w/ VideoReDo (or a similar product - but right now VideoReDo is the only one I'm considering). So, it's either make the switch from minidv now and go to the FS100 mpeg camera or wait for VideoReDo to release H264 - AVCHD compatible version.

I really don't want a camera that will be outdated in 6 months - but the FS100 can be found cheap enough that its a tossup between wait or buy now.

The point is - PLEASE get a H264 compatible version of ReDo soon (so I can edit my family memories in HD).

Thanks

[IRa]

But when are VideoReDo (and others for that matter) going to stop living in the good old MPeg 2 world (just because the states are backward and keep using it) and recognize that the rest of the world has moved on.At least I hope they stay living in old Mpeg2 world long enough to make VideoReDo to really work in that world, including real support for subtitles (DVBsubtitles and Teletext subtitles) for example.

[laserfan]

...when are VideoReDo (and others for that matter) going to stop living in the good old MPeg 2 world (just because the states are backward and keep using it) and recognize that the rest of the world has moved on.Hmmm, the VRD team LIVES IN those "backward states" as do many of the rest of us who record TV in MPEG2!!!

I wonder why you think disparaging the people & the product is going to elevate your views in the VRD developers' eyes?

[murrayt]

Or in the eyes of those in other countries (you'd probably categorize them as neanderthal!) that rely solely on Mpeg-2 technologies?

VRD is by far the best tool (and best value for money tool) I have come accross for these tasks, and that fact that H.264 is being added is good news even though I can't get all that excited about it as it has limited use for me.

[Wintermute77]

it's been months since I used this ap. I came here to see if they actually added h264 like one of the senior members stated back in 09/07. So, I uninstalled mine today. I've wasted money on worse things. This ap is a dinosaur it's outdated. There's a hand full of free open source apz that do what this one does, with h264 videos. To think I'd pay them more money for something I can get that does the same work for free? They screwed up should've done it bout a year ago. Then they could have got some more money out of me.

Bad day eh? Perfect timing though, you couldn't have pick a better occasion for this rant than these days when H264 upgrade of VRD/TVS is expected in a matter of weeks :D I envy you all the other appz capable of proper H264 editing, me must have completely missed a revolution on this field, since the tools publicly available last time I checked had been giving unsatisfactory/disastrous results no matter what. MPEG2 editing is still very demanded and useful on a planet I am living on, fyi. ;) DVDs, DVB-T, DVB-S, capture cards, you can figure.

[rschult298]

i agree with wahzoo5,this thread started back in nov.2006 asking about h264.
is there anybody really working on this? you would think in two years they would at least have a beta.h264 is only getting bigger it is not going away.

[bits]

i agree with wahzoo5,this thread started back in nov.2006 asking about h264.
is there anybody really working on this? you would think in two years they would at least have a beta.h264 is only getting bigger it is not going away.
Seems like VRD is at least as fast/slow as the rest of the folks that could or should be developing software to edit h264.

Like many have said in this thread, VRD is the best mpeg2 editing software hands down and I for one want it to stay that way. Pestering and beating them about the head is not called for. Why don't you go pester some other software developer to get you your h264 editing software?

[rschult298]

bits ;i am just saying what other people are thinking.i have been using vrd for years and there is nothing better or faster for the formats it recognizes.i have been checking this site for at least a year for some hope.i know that when or if vrd recognizes h264 it will work correctly and fast.it just seems to be taking an awfully long time.

[bits]

bits ;i am just saying what other people are thinking.i have been using vrd for years and there is nothing better or faster for the formats it recognizes.i have been checking this site for at least a year for some hope.i know that when or if vrd recognizes h264 it will work correctly and fast.it just seems to be taking an awfully long time.
If you judge VRDs response to h264 based on the response other software folks are responding to it, then I would say that VRD is doing pretty dang good. They at least are saying that they are working on it!

Who knows, maybe h264 is the answer that MPAA(Motion Picture Association of America) has been looking for!

[dvd_maniac]

I just tried the Elecard AVCHD editting tool on a short Hauppauge HD-PVR's AVCHD recording and it Imports and cuts it up perfectly without and re-encoding.
My next test will be to cut a long recording up and then join them. Hopefully it will work and have no sync issues or anything.
Others here might want to give the trial a good test on their H.264 videos

[bits]

I just tried the Elecard AVCHD editting tool on a short Hauppauge HD-PVR's AVCHD recording and it Imports and cuts it up perfectly without and re-encoding.
My next test will be to cut a long recording up and then join them. Hopefully it will work and have no sync issues or anything.
Others here might want to give the trial a good test on their H.264 videos
I downloaded the trial last night and will give a run through this evening.

[HDTVNut]

I just tried the Elecard AVCHD editting tool on a short Hauppauge HD-PVR's AVCHD recording and it Imports and cuts it up perfectly without and re-encoding.

Had no luck with HD captures from an R5000-modified Dish Network receiver. It appears to index the files at first, but then pops up a blank error dialog. SD captures can be edited ok (though the time-consuming indexing step is annoying). I even remuxed my captures, to both TS and M2TS before trying to import and it didn't make a difference. I was expecting this to work since AVCHD is basically H.264 inside of an M2TS container.

Also noticed that it only does GOP accurate editing.

Still looking for an H.264 editor (and I would gladly give VideoReDo another $50 for this feature).

[dhnj]

The free software package that came with the Canon HF100 from Pixela Japan named ImageMixer SE 3 is a fantastic product. Does everything you need, but you must get used to the user interface.

The Hauppauge HD PVR oem free software Total Media Extreme 1.0.9.6 from Arcsoft is also very good for editing & authoring.

The above 2 software packages will not re-encode if you use input material
for what it was developed for.

However there is now a new AVC HD editor from ELECARD for $49, which can use any AVCHD input. I have tested the beta version & found the following
problems which will be corrected in the final version.

1. 1 hour recordings 4GB cannot be loaded for editing.

2. No Audio when editing.

Very good user interface & no re-encoding.

[robena]

Still looking for an H.264 editor (and I would gladly give VideoReDo another $50 for this feature).

TSPE (http://www.bitstreamtools.com/) combined with CoreAVC (http://www.coreavc.com/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1) does work with R5000 AVC Dish captures.

It's a GOP editor, but it does a very decent job. Until VR AVC is available, it's actually the only decent AVC editor.

[HDTVNut]

TSPE (http://www.bitstreamtools.com/) combined with CoreAVC (http://www.coreavc.com/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1) does work with R5000 AVC Dish captures.

It's a GOP editor, but it does a very decent job. Until VR AVC is available, it's actually the only decent AVC editor.

I have this and have used it. It works, but seeking is very time consuming, making the entire editing process slow. It's as if it is sequentially reading the entire stream, rather than randomly accessing it. I wonder if this is because I'm using it with straight transport streams, rather than M2TS (with the additional four bytes of time code in each packet). Or perhaps it is due to my streams being VBR (not being padded with null packets to 19.4Mbit/s). I can't believe anyone would find the program usable if they were experiencing the same behavior as I am.

[HDTVNut]

I have this and have used it. It works, but seeking is very time consuming, making the entire editing process slow. It's as if it is sequentially reading the entire stream, rather than randomly accessing it.

On a hunch, I updated my copy of Haali media splitter. I was using the version that got installed with my CoreAVC codec, which was a very old version. I found the latest version and went from version 1.7.x.x to 1.9.42.1. Now seeking is instant, and TSPE is very usable.

[Woad Warrior]

Hey thanks, I tried it too - seems to be very good indeed.

What I like is that it turned the fairly poor output that I get from DVBViewer for my satellite recordings (DVB-S2) into something which seems to be clean and playable on just about anything.

I've not yet tried all the stuff in the menus yet, but looks like there's a lot to experiment with there. Strip HD Audio Extensions sounds interesting for m2ts ;)

[guppyman]

TSPE (http://www.bitstreamtools.com/) combined with CoreAVC (http://www.coreavc.com/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1) does work with R5000 AVC Dish captures.

It's a GOP editor, but it does a very decent job. Until VR AVC is available, it's actually the only decent AVC editor.

I have tried this, too. I have it setup on a dual boot partition with Windows 7 beta on my primary PC. It's working out fairly well. I also set up my somewhat dated HTPC with Windows 7 beta and it's now playing H.264 files from my R5000-HD reasonably well. Windows 7 beta has built-in support for H.264 so the files will play without CoreAVC, just not with the same functionality (pause and skip don't work for instance).

I still miss the VideoRedo interface but it appears that TSPE's trial will get me by for awhile - hopefully we will have a new version of VR soon. Need to buy CoreAVC, though, now that I know it works. One nice thing about TSPE is that it is reducing the file sizes pretty dramatically. A one hour episode captured with the R5000-HD is about 8-9 GB. After trimming the commercials and working it's "magic," they are reduced down to around 2 GB. I'm new to the whole H.264/MPEG-4 thing - I guess it has something to do with stripping out the null packets?

Now if DrDivx would transcode H.264 files, I'd almost be there. Even though I've got a decent amount of storage on my server, I'd still like to get the file size down.

[Bullitt5094]

Pinnacle Studio 12 Ultimate will edit AVC but rendering is VERY SLOW. I'm a huge Gator fan and was able to download the BCS Championship game from my Comcast HD STB. I then used VRD to make the edits using scene detector and encode a file which it did really quickly. Actually in minutes per quarter. I then opened the VRD generated file in Ultimate and added the Chapters/Menu and transitions. I then output AVC format to DVDs. I could only put one quarter on each DVD, but that isn't a big deal in my book because it looks like the original broadcast. I'm playing the DVDs my PS3 and Mitsu Diamond 65". Results were awesome but rendering took 6.5 x actual time with an AMD 2.4 Dual Core processor with Ultimate. Now if VRD would come up with the feature, that would be great. I also took the MPG file VRD wrote and put it on a thumb drive in the PS3 and it ofcourse looked great too.

Don't get me wrong, VRD is well worth the price as is but it really needs this capability in the not to distant future to keep up with the needs of it's customers IMHO.

[TheH]

I have CoreAVC install on a Core2Quad Vista ultimate PC using TMPlayer and only a few dish AVC 1080i files open fine, some of the other recorded files just wont open at all. Files are on a trp container recorded from a SV8000HD prv, the trps that won't open I can remux them with TsRemux and save them as a TS file, then they open with KMPlayer but there are lines and picture distortion all over the place, I don't understand why this is happening but so far those Mpeg4 trp avc files are useless, MPEG2 SD trp streams work fine with VR and play fine in Windows with CoreAVC, I hope the new VideoRedo will include support for this type of MPEG4 1080i trp files.

What I don't understand is why some of those trps play fine and even work with ConvertxtoDVD, the other ones that wont play at all with KMplayer get audio sync issues on DVDs made with Convertxtodvd, and well they wont work at all with VR at this time.

Is anyone having this issue with trp or ts video files on windows? any temp fix at least to open those video files in windows until VR supports this and we can edit and transcode?

Thanks!

[halsboss]

But when are VideoReDo (and others for that matter) going to stop living in the good old MPeg 2 world (just because the states are backward and keep using it) and recognize that the rest of the world has moved on.

?? Aus is officially firmly entrenched in mpeg2 broadcasting. Keep your flights of fancy under control, matey.

[halsboss]

Just a thought for the developers... could this person and his/her mp4 related code be of any help to you ? http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=122598

He/She was the source of the info on how to deal "false" PAL OTA 1080i over at http://www.videoredo.net/msgBoard/showthread.php?t=8048 and writes various programs dealing with mpeg2, mpeg4 etc.

[HDTVNut]

One nice thing about TSPE is that it is reducing the file sizes pretty dramatically. A one hour episode captured with the R5000-HD is about 8-9 GB. After trimming the commercials and working it's "magic," they are reduced down to around 2 GB. I'm new to the whole H.264/MPEG-4 thing - I guess it has something to do with stripping out the null packets?

You know you can record from the R-5000HD with null packet stuff disabled, don't you? Your files would be around 1/3rd as large when recorded if you disabled null packet stuffing. HD H.264 is typically below 6Mbits/sec on Dish. Only the single 1080p VOD offering each month is high bitrate.

[guppyman]

You know you can record from the R-5000HD with null packet stuff disabled, don't you? Your files would be around 1/3rd as large when recorded if you disabled null packet stuffing. HD H.264 is typically below 6Mbits/sec on Dish. Only the single 1080p VOD offering each month is high bitrate.

Yes, I knew that. I'm knew to the R5000-HD/H.264 stuff and I wanted to do some testing before I made the switch. I had planned on making the switch before now - I 'll try it this weekend.

[lrhorer]

IMHO and it seems rather obvious is that it is not easy to do and there may be some costly licensing issues. I tend to believe h264 was chosen not because of some superior encoding capability but because it is a bugger to edit.
No, most providers have chosen it because of it's ability to compress video more with less loss of PQ than MPEG 2.


Also, mpeg2 is still king of the hill because well it is still king of the hill! h264 is still small potatoes, yes it is growing in use but it is still small potatoes, especially here in the US.
True or not, if a person has a need for H.264 or MPEG 4, then they haeva need for it. MPEG 2 is "king of the hill" on storage media, but definitely not transport media. Internet streaming, satellite transmissions, etc are all moving rapidly to H.264 / MPEG 4. Most HD camcorders also employ H.264.


Lastly, many folks have blindly fallen into the trap of thinking h264 is almost magical in its abilities and are clamoring for something they really know nothing about. This is of course is just my opinion. There are parts of Europe where there is more of a need for h264 editing capability.
Magical? No. For a given PQ, it does tend to allow files that are between 1/4 and 3/4 the size of an MPEG 2 file. That is a substantial savings, especially if bandwidth or storage space is at a premium. On a networked TiVo, for example, it can easily mean the difference between being able to watch a very high bandwidth 1080i video off the LAN real-time, or having to stop and wait several times throughout a 90 minute move in order to let the network buffer enough video to prevent continuous interruptions.

[lrhorer]

As long as DVDs are the backup medium, then mpeg2 editors will be used.
Since everything is moving rapidly to HD, this fact is rapidly becoming moot. I authored a pair of DVDs for my sister in law a few days ago. She does not have an HD set. That was the first pair of DVDs I've authored in over two years. Three years ago, I was doing at least four or five a week.


This may change eventually but not for several years.
That depends on what you mean by "change". If you mean MPEG 2 editing and storage being eliminated almost entirely, then I would agree. If you mean it's being the most common form of video storage and transport in general, then not. The ever increasing amount of HD programming coupled with the need for increasingly efficient transport and storage is going to drive H.264 to the forefront in a hurry. YouTube is already exclusively H.264. The online offerings of NetFlix, BlockBuster, etc will all eventually be 100% H.264. CATV companies are very likely to start the move to H.264 in the next couple of years.


An interesting product would be an editor that converts from h264 to mpeg2 as it edits. It would avoid the need to directly edit the h264 stream: first convert, then edit.
Not that I won't want an H.264 editor in the future, but at this point in time I have no need for an H.264 editor, not the least reason of which being I don't have any H.264 files. What I do want at this time, however, is an editor for MPEG 2 / VOD/ TiVo files that can transcode the edited content to H.264.

[HDTVNut]

Just a thought for the developers... could this person and his/her mp4 related code be of any help to you ? http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=122598

That stuff is currently not useful for R5000-HD users who are recording Dish Network content. libavcodec's PAFF support is still pretty incomplete last time I checked, so they can't properly decode our recordings (CoreAVC can).

[bits]

IrHore:


No, most providers have chosen it because of it's ability to compress video more with less loss of PQ than MPEG 2.

Yes of course they are choosing it because it is more efficient than mpeg2 but so is DivX and Xvid and ....it is a win win situation for them...more efficient and more difficult to edit.

So what is your theory as to why there are so few options for editing h264?

Is it difficult to edit? Are there more tightly controlled licensing issues?

On the face of your passionate argument for h264 there should be dozens of editing apps from all of the major players but there are not and why do you think that is?. There are few emerging but all so far seem limited.

[HDTVNut]

You should stop trying to resist lrhorer's attempts to educate you. I've been involved in developing software for still and motion picture editing for the past 22 years (I've been at Adobe since the mid-90s), and lhorer is absolutely spot-on with his observations. H.264 has almost completely supplanted MPEG-2 in any distribution scenario where the end-user's codecs can be updated or otherwise controlled (Internet, high-def satellite). Only legacy applications are still MPEG-2, mainly because you can't update the codecs (DVD player), or it isn't worth it (not yet worth replacing satellite receivers for low-value SD-only subscribers).

There actually are plenty of options for H.264 editing. The problem is that most of us have somewhat specialized requirements such as limiting the amount of re-encoding, etc, which are not meant by the other available solutions. I've got at least two applications on my system that are capable of editing my H.264 captures, but they want to completely re-encode the result when I'm done, which is not what I want.

H.264 began more as a final format for distribution, rather than an editing format, which is probably why the apps have been slow in coming. Consumer devices were capturing using codecs that were less efficient, but more mature, and H.264 was most important for encoding the final result, rather than using it for capture or during the editing process. But as the codec implementations matured, and became available in ASICs from multiple vendors, H.264 capture became more widely available in consumer devices, and the demand for the editing applications has started to pick up.

[HDTVNut]

That stuff is currently not useful for R5000-HD users who are recording Dish Network content. libavcodec's PAFF support is still pretty incomplete last time I checked, so they can't properly decode our recordings (CoreAVC can).

I checked out a recent build of ffmpeg and it actually was able to handle a Dish Network R5000-HD capture. It spit out a bunch of messages about "too many reference frames" at the very beginning, but after that no more errors, and the results look good. So ffmpeg can be a useful tool for trancoding HD Dish Network captures now.

[bits]

You should stop trying to resist lrhorer's attempts to educate you. I've been involved in developing software for still and motion picture editing for the past 22 years (I've been at Adobe since the mid-90s), and lhorer is absolutely spot-on with his observations. H.264 has almost completely supplanted MPEG-2 in any distribution scenario where the end-user's codecs can be updated or otherwise controlled (Internet, high-def satellite). Only legacy applications are still MPEG-2, mainly because you can't update the codecs (DVD player), or it isn't worth it (not yet worth replacing satellite receivers for low-value SD-only subscribers).

There actually are plenty of options for H.264 editing. The problem is that most of us have somewhat specialized requirements such as limiting the amount of re-encoding, etc, which are not meant by the other available solutions. I've got at least two applications on my system that are capable of editing my H.264 captures, but they want to completely re-encode the result when I'm done, which is not what I want.

H.264 began more as a final format for distribution, rather than an editing format, which is probably why the apps have been slow in coming. Consumer devices were capturing using codecs that were less efficient, but more mature, and H.264 was most important for encoding the final result, rather than using it for capture or during the editing process. But as the codec implementations matured, and became available in ASICs from multiple vendors, H.264 capture became more widely available in consumer devices, and the demand for the editing applications has started to pick up.
I appreciate your inputs and your attempt to educate. There is a great deal that I am ignorant on in regards to how widespread its use is and to why there are so few editing apps. IMO I would not use the word 'plenty' to describe the number of software apps that can cut/trim/edit h264. There are 'plenty' of apps that will encode to h264.

So what is your theory as to why it is taking the very capable VRD folks such a long time to come up with such an app? If h264 is about to hit us like a tsunami then why is there still so little available for editing it?

Why in your opinion and experience was h264 chosen? My numerous encoding tests indicate that is not really that superior to wmv or Xvid or DivX. Over the last few years I have seen dozens of posts by folks who are blindly converting their video to h264 because they think it is magic, that reduction of 4x or more will not result in PQ loss. Many even believe that it will make their video better.

[halsboss]

Aus is firmly mpeg2 broadcasting, all the tuners/TVs on our market are mpeg2, as are all the DVDs in our rental stores... and the digital cutover date to mpeg2 broadcasting hasn't even arrived yet - consider the interia in these things and government driven standards.

Aus cable is around and has a variety of 100 year old and repeat programmes if people are into that, but I think that's still mpeg2 at the moment but that could change as any box could feed good video via hdmi into TV.

What would be really good is DVD players which also play mpeg4 AVC files (currently some do play xvid/divx with many irksome restrictions like SD resolution only - why, noone knows).

Manufacturers of such things haven't twigged about consumer friendliness, like an mp3 player market equivalent notion - they're still firmly fixated on producers (hollywood's) needs to encrypt and protect rather than on what consumers may want to do with their own files.

Ah, for the day when (if??) they do twig and they play various user-created upsizing arbitrary resolution clips/material (including AVC ?) from USB sticks or from cheap media such as CDs and DVDs...

[HDTVNut]

So what is your theory as to why it is taking the very capable VRD folks such a long time to come up with such an app?

I'm not going to speculate on this, other than to say writing a codec (assuming they aren't just licensing an existing one) is hard, and they are a small company.



If h264 is about to hit us like a tsunami then why is there still so little available for editing it?

Every AVCHD camera you can buy at Fry's come with an H.264 editor bundled with it in the box. At the low-end there are products from Sony Vegas, Nero, Pegasys, Ulead, Adobe (Premiere Elements), Pinnacle, Apple (iMovie) and several others. Although all of these support editing H.264 video, none of them meet my needs like an H.264-capable VideoRedo would, as all I want to do is chop out the commercials and trim the ends from captured H.264. Also, the non-square pixels, and use of PAFF in Dish captures might be a problem for products used to editing AVCHD captures from HD camcorders.



Why in your opinion and experience was h264 chosen? My numerous encoding tests indicate that is not really that superior to wmv or Xvid or DivX.

Your conclusion isn't the same one reached by people with far more experience in this field than you or I. MPEG-4.2 codecs (Xvid/DivX) have been shown to be not much better than MPEG-2, and H.264/AVC and VC-1 (WMV9) have demonstrated themselves to be far superior in PQ to MPEG-2 and MPEG-4.2 at the same bitrate, and equal in PQ at much lower bitrates (approaching 1/2). DBS satellite transponders are very expensive commodities, and it's not a coincidence that both providers in the USA have chosen H.264/AVC for HD to make the most efficient use of this very expensive and precious resource.

[hoojoo]

Why are you people even having this argument? The fact is both MPEG-2 and AVC are used in broadcast and will be for a LONG time. Therefore we need an editor capable of handling BOTH. Even if everyone stops using MPEG-2 tomorrow that doesn't mean VRD needs to drop support for it. That would be silly.