View Full Version : Audio absent during hardware (XCard) playback
Anonymous
03-15-2004, 03:18 PM
I have a curious problem related to audio in trimmed files. After extracting cuts from PVR-250 encoded MPEG file, I sometimes lose audio during playback with my XCard hardware decoder. However, using a software decoder, the audio is definitely there (and the file size indicates as much). I've fiddled with the output settings (frame accurate "on", output for movie factory "off") which didn't fix the problem (completely) but have found that if leading frames are trimmed, then I _do_ have audio during hardware playback (perhaps because some reencoding was forced?).
I'm wondering if anyone knows what may be happening or if there are good tools for analyzing the MPEG stream to see what makes the successful edits (and the originals) different from the unsuccessful edits following VideoReDo. I suspect my hardware decoder is more finicky than the software decoders, but I'd like to be able to give Dan more detailed info.
Thanks for any help.
David Sheinberg
Try this also. One other person had troubles playing clips who had an MPEG card.
"I found that turning down hardware acceleration in the performance box of video settings and not starting playback of a file when opened lets everything work ; and work great it does."
See if this works for you. It was a different problem but maybe its related to MPEG cards in general.
Also a program called FlaskMPEG displays info about the stream as its playing. I don't know if it will help. Don't be distrubed if it doens't play audio as its playing the clip in FlaskMPEG. It has never played audio for me and I don't have an MPEG card.
Let me know if any of this works.
Anonymous
03-15-2004, 09:01 PM
Just to be clear, everything works great in VideoReDo (i.e. the video and the audio) but not when I playback the file afterward with my mpeg hardware.
Is there a connection between the audio/video settings (overlay, direct sound, etc.) and the exported mpeg file, or do these only affect the application performance?
Thanks
OK. I misunderstood a little. I thought VideoReDo was playing the clip and you could enable your MPEG card playback in VRD. Sorry.
The suggestions I was making were with respect to playback in VideoReDo.
Is there a connection between the audio/video settings (overlay, direct sound, etc.) and the exported mpeg file, or do these only affect the application performance?They only affect application performance, no effect on the output file.
Here's another idea, can you upload 3 short 5MB clips to the FTP site:
1) Original video.
2) VideoReDo video where the audio won't play.
3) VideoReDo where the audio will play.
I'll look at the internals of the files and figure out what's different. You can use the Tool>Trim option to create the clips. FTP address: ftp://videoredo:videoredo@ftp.drdsystems.com/ best to put your files in the upload folder.
Anonymous
09-23-2004, 01:30 AM
Has there been any progress on this issue? I just tried the trial of VideoReDo and loved it except that two out of the three files i edited (sourced from a DVB-T capture) don't have any sound when played with Tvedia via my xcard. The sound is there when I play them with winDVD.
I do remember some of our conversations, but not in their entirety. Our notes indicate that we fixed an quant matrix issue for you, but not whether it solved your hardware display problem. Obviously, it didn't. Unfortuneatly, we've purged any files that you might have previously uploaded.
If you like, we will revisit this issue if you would kindly upload the files mentioned in my previous msg. When you upload, please post here or send an email to support@VideoReDo.com so that we know to look for them. Our FTP site is: ftp://videoredo:videoredo@ftp.drdsystems.com/uploads/
Anonymous
09-23-2004, 05:08 AM
I'm a different person to the original poster. I don't have access to ftp but if there is no quick and easy answer I might try asking 8dim (tvedia) first (seeing as the issue seems peculiar to the hardware), they might have a suggestion. Thanks
How about emailing us 2 MB portions of the file that play and don't play?
Anonymous
09-23-2004, 10:58 PM
Okay, I'll send them on Monday. Thanks
mavenman
10-28-2004, 09:27 PM
I am also having problems with no audio playback with Xcard for mpegs edited with VideoRedo. Not every file has problems, but some do. If I use the option to "cut" the video from the Tools pull down menu to trim my video it always seems to play okay, but if I create a cut list and then save the video the newly created video frequently has some flaw that prevents the audio from playing when played via the Xcard.
If the previous poster did not send you any sample files, I can do so if requested.
Thanks
The trim option does not change the file in any way, it simplies copies bytes. I could use some new files to test this with, here's exactly what I'd like:
1) Use the Trim function to extract the first 10MB or so. Make sure this plays on your Xcard.
2) Then use the regular cut feature to cut approximately the same amount from VideoReDo, i.e. leave the start of the program intact. Make sure this DOESN'T play.
3) Upload both to our FTP site: ftp://videoredo:videoredo@ftp.drdsystems.com/uploads/ and leave a msg here.
We will get to it in the next couple of days. Just putting the finishing touches on a transport stream support beta which has been promised for a week now.
mavenman
11-02-2004, 07:10 PM
Dan,
As per your request I have uploaded 2 clips to your ftp site. The first was captured and cut to 10 MB using the "cut" option on the tools menu. The audio on this file plays fine on the Xcard. The second file is the first file after creating cut lists and saving via the normal VRD user interface. This one does not play the audio when played via the Xcard. The files are named "Clip with no Xcard Audio.mpg" and "Clip with Xcard Audio.mpg".
Thanks!
Got'em and will check them out later today or tomorrow (will be glued to the TV tonight). FYI, if you need to upload stuff in the future, the FTP site has been moved. Please see the first msg in this category.
There are any major differences between the 2 files you sent me, but we've made a change which might help. Since we can't test it here (no XCard), send an email (support@videoredo.com) when you're ready to try it out and we will upload a version for you.
mavenman
11-10-2004, 03:33 PM
Dan,
I sent an email to support@videoredo.com to acknowledge that I am willing to try a new Videoredo version. I am not sure if it went through, however, as your mail server seems to be rejecting mail from my mail server. Something about my mail server "is not authorized to send mail" to your domain? Regardless, hopefully this post will function as an indication of my willingness to assist in resolving the Xcard audio problem.
I got your email yesterday, received at 3:11 PM (GMT-5). So I don't know if rejection is a temporary issue or not. There will be a new beta posted later today, build 290 or 291. Please give that one a try. I'll post a notice on the beta group when available.
Also, I'll reply to your email directly. Like to see if the problem is transitory.
I have just found out about VideoReDo at another forum. I have downloaded it and it is exactly what I was looking for, however I'm also suffering from the Xcard/audio issue so I looking forward to the potential fix.
/Roger
Can you download and try build 292, from our beta site: ftp://beta:beta@videoredo.net
Also which Xcard are people using? We can purchase one for our lab if necessary.
This might be even worse.
The first attempt was working fine and I was happy. However the second try there was no sound through the Xcard. This time there was not even any sound in Windows Media Player... I will do some more tests but it starting to get little late here.
I'm using Sigma Designs RealMagic Xcard:
http://www.sigmadesigns.com/products/xcard.htm
The source is coming from Hauppauge PVR-350.
/Roger
The problem with WMP is that it doesn't have its own MPEG2 codecs. Is there another player you can test it with? Like PowerDVD or WinDVD, etc.
I have PowerDVD PowerPack add-on for my WMP. The original mpeg files from PVR-350 are working fine in WMP.
I tested the (Xcard/WMP) failing file on a full copy of PowerDVD and there it worked fine with audio.
/Roger
I didn't notice first but I also get PTS Underflow error when I have the problem. I see in the help that this can occur if I have source with 9.8 Mbit/s. I have a bit rate of 10 Mbit/s on the sources that have failed.
/Roger
If your actual video bitrate is 9.8Mbps and you are using a standard DVD mux rate of 10,080,000 Mbps for your program stream, that means your audio bitrate must be less than 280Kbps or else PTS underflows will result. To make matters worse, if your avg. video bit rate is 9.8Mbps then there might be sections were the instaneous bit rate is somewhat higher.
The VideoReDo output statistics dialog (there's also a copy in the log file) will tell you the actual video bit rate of your program. If you're not burning to DVD, then I suggest bumping the bit rate on the output options dialog to 15 Mbps. That will cure the PTS underflows for sure.
Dan,
Changing the output bit rate removed the PTS error. But it did not fix the audio thing. I still don't get any audio on some of the clips.
/Roger
Roger, Can you trim a small clip that won't play in WMP and upload it to our ftp server: ftp://upload:upload@videoredo.net? We don't know of any problem with WMP or PowerDVD.
Dan,
As soon as I'm back home I will provide you with a sample. I just want to clarify:
Xcard: This is want my problems are, some clips does not have any audio
WMP: This is not conclusive but I have got no sound here as well but on an other machine there was sound with WMP
PowerDVD: Never any problem, always sound
Original Source file from PVR-350: Always sound with XCard, WMP and PowerDVD.
/Roger
Dan,
I have uploaded the clip No_Audio_On_Xcard.mpg to your ftp site. I hope you can find the problem. I like the program but without the possibility to play the clips through Xcard, I need to find something else.
Thanks in advance
Roger
Can you try the two files, I uploaded AlternateMux.mpg AlternateMux2.mpg.
Thanks.
Dan,
Both of the 2 test clips you uploaded works fine with the Xcard. I get sound with both. What have you done? It is also big difference in size between the 2 test clips what differ?
/Roger
Both clips are muxed with non-VideoReDo remultiplexers from elem streams created by VRD. :(
This helps me narrow the problem.
There's a new file uploaded to FTP. If this one works, email me and I'll tell you how change a VideoReDo registry setting. If not, I have one more idea but its going to require some more code changes.
Dan,
I'm sorry to report that XCard20MsecLag.mpg does NOT play with sound on my Xcrad. :cry:
/Roger
Its something very, very subtle. We will order an XCard today so that we can debug it here in the lab. Should have it in house by Wed. / Thurs. so probably there will be a fix by the weekend.
At this point, I can't tell the difference between the files that have audio and those that don't.
Dan
Much appreciated. When you have sorted this problem I will license the software and I'm happy to contribute some extra for your extra expenses to buy a Xcard.
/Roger
FYI, card arrived yesterday. Will find a machine to install it into and start working on it later today or tomorrow.
mavenman
11-23-2004, 09:06 PM
Just wanted to let you know that all us Xcard users appreciate the effort!
XCard users please help, nothing work:
I installed the Xcard drivers and player. Loaded a video into the player, hit play and nothing happens. Is there something magical that has to be done?
Anonymous
11-24-2004, 07:38 PM
Dan,
I am not sure why you are having problems with the Xcard. There is nothing magic needed beyond what you seemed to have already done. Here are a few things to consider, however:
1. Make sure you download the latest drivers from the Sigma Designs website, as the newest version (v. 2.1) is much more stable.
2. I think that the VGA pass-through cable must be connected to your video card and your monitor must be attached to the Xcard VGA port to watch video on the computer monitor.
3. The Xcard is limited to playing back video material of no more than 720x576 in resolution. It does not support HD content and just goes brain dead if you try to play this kind of material.
4. Sigma's Media Player can fail to play if somehow their direct show filter settings got messed up. In order to fix this you have to run Sigma's "Filter Control Panel" (should have installed with XMedia Player) and make sure to disable the Filter Control Panel's four filters and make sure that the Rename quartz.dll option is unchecked.
Hopefully one of these things helps!
Where do I find the "filter control panel"?
I can't find the driver version anyway, but the readme says 1.1 and is dated 2002, so perhaps this is an older release. Will go to their site.
Thanks.
chuckyt
11-26-2004, 09:58 AM
Where do I find the "filter control panel"?
I can't find the driver version anyway, but the readme says 1.1 and is dated 2002, so perhaps this is an older release. Will go to their site.
Thanks.
http://www.sigmadesigns.com/support/download_xcard_win2000_xp.htm
the filters panel is
program files/Real Magic Xcard/filters control
Thanks for your support on this one Dan !
If you want an excellent app that uses the Xcard for output, check out GBPVR, a app in delelopment that I use as my primary playback app through the xcard
http://www.gbpvr.com/
zaphod7501
11-26-2004, 02:26 PM
I don't have an Xcard (I have the older Hollywood Plus) but I monotor the Sigma forums. Isn't there something about a need to right-click on the play button to get it started ?
I'll be updating to the 2.1 release later today. The right click on the play btn selects DVD or play list (MPEG files).
The 2.1 release did the trick, I now have the XCard up and running :)
Can one of you XCard users please give this a try. Find or create a VideoReDo edited file that doesn't play audio and run it through QuickStream Fix and see if that new file has audio?
Thanks.
Unfortunate QuickStream Fix did NOT restore the Audio :(
/Roger
Roger, Can you upload the first 5 MB of the QSF'd fix (use Tools>Trim) to our FTP site: ftp://upload:upload@videoredo.net?
QSF has worked 100% of the time for restoring audio. Which build of VideoReDo are you running?
I have uploaded No_Audio_On_Xcard QuickStream Fix.mpg. It is the same clip that I sent to you earlier except I have run the QuickStream Fix against it.
I use 1.7.0 292
/Roger
I think I found it. It now works in 110% of the files :) :)
You'll need to download beta build #296 which will be posted later today. After you download the beta you'll need to do the following:
Open up reg edit and go to key: HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\DRD Systems\VideoReDo\AdvancedStream
Change the value for: MuxerAudioLagMsec from its present value of 100 (x64) to 20 (x14). Lower values are OK as well.
If you don't find the value in registry then go to Tools>Options>Advanced Stream and click on OK. This will update the registry.
Assuming this works will be either make this value the new default or give you an option of changing in from a dialog box.
Anonymous
11-29-2004, 03:42 PM
Thanks, I'm looking forward to test when the new build is available.
/Roger
New beta posted: http://www.drdsystems.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=2602#2602
:D :D :D
I have now tested the 296 build with the registry change for about an hour and I cannot get it to fail with the Xcard.
I'm amased about the outstanding support you have provided Dan. I have three days left of the trial key but I will order it tomorrow (it's close to 1am now and time for bed).
Thanks
Roger
Thanks Roger, I'm just thrilled that we finally solved this problem.
There are so many "unknowns" in the MPEG specification that you don't always know which program is working correctly and which one isn't. In this case, I believe VideoReDo is correct and Sigma's implementation is wrong, but I couldn't come to that conclusion until we figured out the solution. By then the problem was solved :)
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