Adding batch DVD writing to VideoReDo

[DanR]

I've been having an off-line discussion with a new VideoReDo user, Gerry P. about adding a new feature to VRD. Gerry has agreed to move this discussion over here so others can contribute. The next 3 msgs are from our original email thread.

[DanR]

Name: Gerry Plasky
Issue: Feature request
Message: I\'m involved with the HTPC community and active on many of their forums. One thing that many users are looking for is a product with this capability but from a command line perspective so they can automate it. A lot of us record OTA TV with programs like SageTV and Beyond TV and are looking for a way to automate taking the file and making a DVD out of it. Not so much about trimming the commercials but automating the creation of the DVD files directory structure and then burning. This would be very much in demand if your product supported this from the command line or possibly another version, more of the core product, that would only do this. Please let me know if this is feasible or if you have any questions about what I am requesting. Thanks in advance.

Gerry

[DanR]

Hello Gerry,

Thanks for the request. The present version of VideoReDo does not support authoring of DVDs. However, this is an item for consideration in a future release. The idea of authoring a "vanilla" DVD from the command line is a good one which we will think about. It shouldn't be too tough once the basic DVD authoring capability is in place. I would imagine we could let the user setup some standard templates which would then be used. Frankly, I would have loved having that feature during the testing phase of VideoReDo. We must have created about 1,000 DVDs (to folders, not discs) in order to assure audio/video sync. What a pain in the butt it was to have to go through the menus each time.

Which forums are you active in? I'm familiar with the AVSForum, are there others that we should be participating in?

Thanks... Dan Rosen, VideoReDo.

[DanR]

From: Gerry Plasky [mailto:gplasky223900MI@comcast.net]
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 6:40 PM
To: 'Dan Rosen'
Subject: RE: Feature request


Thanks for the quick reply. I'm mainly in the myHTPC forum at http://myhtpc.net/ and over at Frey Technologies, makers of Sage TV, a PVR program at http://www.freytechnologies.com/. Those 2 forums alone should generate a lot of interest. I also post at http://www.snapstream.com/ but I would think you're already over there. I have both Sage and Beyond but Sage supports multiple tuners and has a little better picture quality than Beyond. Current testing hteir Version 2 beta for them. Actually someone has already ready posted your product in the Sage TV forum. That's how I got to your site.

Definitely go for the vanilla DVD authoring. People are clamoring for an easy way to burning their TV recordings to DVD. (Or get them in format so they can burn them.)Here was my thought. Give your program the commandline capability with a switch to specify an xml file. Like videoredo.exe -x settings.xml. In your program have a configuration page for output directory for DVD, input directory for mpg. Most of the PVR files are named per the TV show and a showID or date. And also any other configs that would make sense. Then have a menu choice like "outputsettings to xml". This would have all the settings for videoredo to grab the mpeg file and create a directory and put the finished .vob and .ifo files in.

A couple of us in the Sage forum have been trying to do this with batch files. I found a program
here: http://dvdauthor.sourceforge.net/ and also here: http://mpgtx.sourceforge.net/ that we were able to cobble together with a batch file and actually automate it. Then using CopytoDVD (which also supports commandline-and you could incorporate in your program)burn the DVD. On the myHTPC forum there is a lot going on. If you're not familiar with it it is a front end for Home Theater. It comes woth some modules built-in that will play music, DVD, has an EPG. The big thing is a lot of people are making "plug-ns) that give the progrsm more functionallity.

Pablo (the programmer) is coming out with version 2 which I am involved with testing. There is a lot of potential there for your program. Check out the forum. I post there as gplasky so you can search on some of my postings. I would also be willing to beta test anything you may come up with. Let me know if I can help but definitely pursue at least outputting to a compliant DVD file and structure soon.

Gerry Plasky

[Anonymous]

Dan,

Might dovetail very nicely with +VR import for editing and +VR export to DVD.

[DanR]

Might dovetail very nicely with +VR import for editing and +VR export to DVD.I agree.

[Tom]

@ Dan

MyHTPC is really a cool project that has been reviewed @ several german PC magazines... I also tried it but stopped after the EPG stopped working for Germany ... There are some hacks around to get XMLtv working again but I didn't have the time to test it more...

I guess we should have an ear to this community and its wishes ...

Its amazing how a program like VideoReDo is showing the different needs of different people... I for myself would't ever have thought of using VideoReDo over the commandline (I know you do) ... Or burning a dvd without having the commercials cut out ...

[DanR]

I too didn't thinkNeither did I, but I actually did look into automatically creating DMF2 project files so that I could automate the testing of the VRD and DMF2 interface. Their file formats are propietary so I never could do it.

[gplasky]

Keep in mind some of the programming off of cable might not have the commercials thru the movie-just before or after so not a big deal to FF. Even with the commandline version could still use the commercial cutting on say a bunch of recordings and then basically do a batch burn. A lot of times the wife might ask "Did you record so& so last night?" "Can you burn it so I can watch it in the bedroom." It would just be sweet, especialy out of say myHTPC to find a file, click a button and have the recording burned to disk with little to no effort.

Gerry

[DanR]

I think I have good understanding of what you are looking for. I'll post more questions and comments as we start to design this for a future release.A lot of times the wife might ask "Did you record so& so last night?" "Can you burn it so I can watch it in the bedroom." My wife asks the exact same question. What I really want to do is get a network player and just stream the video from the HTPC to the bedroom. Save the whole burning issue. :)

[Tom]

What I really want to do is get a network player and just stream the video from the HTPC to the bedroom. Save the whole burning issue
That's the best !!!
I have the Hauppauge Media MVP and it loves VideoReDo files :-)

[gplasky]

Already tried it. Had a small PC with SageTV in the kitchen for her. She just couldn't understand why the movie was half way done in the living room but had started from the beginning in the kitchen. :D

I do have a MVP which I am going to try for her next. Just trying to figure out the best approach.

Dan
Thanks for taking the time to listen. I think heading in this direction will help your product become very popular. There are already some posts in the Sage TV forum praising your product. I think you have a hit on your hands.

Gerry

[DanR]

Thanks Gerry. The feedback you and others have provided is terrific. I can't wait to see the next few versions myself, they will be awesome. The humerous thing is that for the last 2-3 months, as I pushed to get VideoReDo ready for release, I haven't had time to edit many videos for myself. I'm actually running out of disk space storing stuff that needs to be edited and burned. :)

Keep the ideas coming.

[PGPfan]

Hi Dan,

I have tried (and will soon purchase) VRD and love it. It does 90% of the things that I need for my DVD creation. I'm also an user of SageTV and would love to see you integrate Copy-To-DVD into VRD program. I have been a registered user of Copy-To-DVD for a year and a half, and I think it would make a great compliment to VRD. I don't think many people realize how eazy it can be to integrate burning into other software so I thought I'd post the SDK for you to look at.

I hope I'm not overstepping my bounds, but I really believe this could thrust VRD to become the editting 'weapon of choice'.



Introduction :

CopyToDVD offers a very easy SDK for everyone and let you add a burning feature into your own
application. This SDK is a set of command lines options, and allow to generate iso image, burn dvd
video from a set of files, build audio cd and more.

To distribute CopyToCD/DVD into your own application or for any commercial information about
licensing, contact us. We have various options to offer like the affiliation program, reselling, or volume
price.
Several options are still not documented, and if you need some special options, you can contact us,
and we can add it in a future version depending on your request.

Command line switches

Backup a file or folder
To backup a single file or folder use the following command line:
copytocd.exe "<file/folder>"
Example 1) copytocd.exe "c:\documents\"
Example 2) copytocd.exe "c:\documents\calculation.doc"

Backup multiple files/folders
To backup multiple files and/or folders, you need to create a file list (a simple text file), which contains
all file and folder names (with full path). Then specify this file list in the command line:
copytocd.exe /fl="<file list>"
Example: copytocd.exe /fl="c:\backup.txt"
Exemplary content of backup.txt:
; comments (will be ignored)
C:\DISK_PATH\FILE_TO_COPY_1.XXX
C:\DISK_PATH\FILE_TO_COPY_2.XXX
C:\DISK_PATH\FILE_TO_COPY_3.XXX

Create an audio CD
To create an audio CD from a file list, use the same method as in the previous example, but use the
/cdaudio switch. Supported audio file formats are: WAV, MP2, MP3, OGG, and APE.
copytocd.exe /cdaudio="<file list>"
Example: copytocd.exe /cdaudio="c:\audio.txt"
Exemplary content of audio.txt:
; comments (will be ignored)
C:\DISK_PATH\MUSIC_FILE_1.MP3
C:\DISK_PATH\MUSIC_FILE_2.MP3
C:\DISK_PATH\MUSIC_FILE_3.MP3

Burn a DVD movie
To burn a DVD-Video structure from your hard drive (which has been extracted from a DVD before),
use the /dvdvideo switch and specify the folder containing your movie title set (.VOB files):
copytocd.exe /dvdvideo=”<folder>”
Example: copytocd.exe /dvdvideo=”c:\dvd backup\movie1\”

Create an ISO compliant image
If you don't want to write to a media, but create an ISO image, add the /isoonly switch:
copytocd.exe "<file/folder>" /isoonly="<iso image>"
or
copytocd.exe /fl="<filelist>" /isoonly="<iso image>"
Example 1) copytocd.exe "c:\documents\" /isoonly="c:\backup.iso"
Example 2) copytocd.exe /fl="c:\backup.txt" /isoonly="c:\backup.iso"

Write an ISO image
You can write an ISO image by simply specifying it in the command line:
copytocd.exe "<iso image>"
Example: copytocd.exe "c:\backup.iso"

Write a cue sheet file (.CUE)
To write a cue sheet, use the /cue switch:
copytocd.exe /cue="<cue sheet>"
Example: copytocd.exe /cue="c:\disc.cue"

[Anonymous]

I'm another Sage refugee and want to add a little twist to this discussion.

VRD is the only app I have found so far that will reliably edit an mpeg2 file. I love it and you will see my paypal registration real soon.

I am fast becoming a fan of something I call a SageDVD. It's a simple copy of the sage created mpg file to dvd. This bypasses all of the DVD authoring junk and is the absolute fastest and easiest way to get content off the sage drive.

I don't really care about making a standard DVD for two reasons. One, I'm not distributing this stuff and sage is the only a/v device I use so I don't need a STB dvd. Two, I can always copy the mpg file back to the machine and make a STB dvd if I wanted to.

Here is the scenario. I have a 'Copy to DVD' option in the program info form in sage. I select that and one of two things happen.

One- The file fits on a dvd and gets copied. Don't need VRD to do this.

Two- The file is larger than a dvd so it gets divided somehow and each piece is copied to successive dvds. VDR needs only to calculate a cut point and write out the files.

From a user perspective I want it simple and fast. I don't care where the stream gets cut. I want to get content out of sage that is usable in sage. I think the achive to dvd funciton is an important piece in this pvr puzzle that is currently missing.

Every mpeg file I have touched with your app plays perfectly and I am very grateful. I think you should partner with sage, create this copy to dvd function, and kick butt.

[DanR]

Sage Guys,

Thanks for the great words. The CopyDVD stuff looks very interesting and I'll start pursuing that next week.

[Anonymous]

Hi Dan,

Just curious if you had a chance to look at the SDK I posted for Copy-to-DVD support, and what your thoughts were about possible implementation. Any comments would be appreciated!

-PGPfan

[DanR]

Just curious if you had a chance to look at the SDK I posted for Copy-to-DVD support, and what your thoughts were about possible implementationYes, I did look at the Copy-to-DVD support and its appears to be a useful SDK, but from what I can tell its only one component of the whole burning process. To create a DVD from an MPEG file there are 3 steps:

1) Author the DVD. Layout the menus, chapters, etc. In a first version for VideoReDo, we might just go with no menus; i.e. autoplay the title. Chapters will be set inside VideoReDo and show as tick marks on the navigation bar. (just thiinking out loud). If you take this step too far your end up with MovieFactory, TmpGenc DVD Author, DVD-Lab, etc. That's getting to be a pretty crowded market.

2) Createt the DVD files and folders. This is the meat of the process. Here you build the IFO and VOB files from the raw MPEG streams.

3) Burn the files / folders to the DVD. This is the part that Copy-to-DVD can do for you. When I get to this point, I'll surely look into it.

[gplasky]

You may want to base your first generation beta on this scenario. Of course I am formulating based on how I would find it most useful now. I'm using SageTV to record TV programs. AT the rate I record a hour program could take up 2GB and a movie would take up 4 GB. I wouldn't mind just putting just one of either one on one DVD.

So you're already there for step 1. I cut out beginnings and ends for movies without commercials. Of course I would cut out commercials too for all others. Now from within your program I would like a menu choice or button to build the DVD. What would also be helpful in my scenario would be for VideoRedo to use the name of my mpeg file as the initial directory for the DVD build, Video_TS and Audio_TS would show up under that directory. I am recommending this with an eye towards automating the process with the command line. I could see where sometimes I wouldn't care about doing any cutting but just getting the mpeg built and burned to DVD as automated as possible.

Just some suggestions for you to ponder.

Gerry

[DanR]

Hi Gerry,

Good ideas. At this point I have no wish to create another complete DVD authoring utility. There are plenty of good ones out there already, and at reasonable prices. However, I do think it would be useful to be able to quickly burn a DVD from an MPEG stream. No menus or minimal menus at most.

We are actually going to go one step better than a command line interface. VideoReDo will be COM enabled so that you can invoke VideoReDo functions from any macro language or COM enabled language such as VB. We will also include command line utilities that will let you use VideoReDo from the command line.

[Anonymous]

I understand about the crowded market for an authoring suite, but I think that speed and ease of use are where VRD shines, and could even more here.

What I'd find useful is something similar to gplasky, (being a Sage freak, and all) but like this:

Sage records the files for me. If a movie or tv show, I'm going to edit with VRD to pull commercials, etc. I really don't care too much about chapter locations after commercials are removed, I just need the ability to have simple navigation to pickup where I leave off if I need to finish viewing at a later time. Perhaps automated chapter insertion every 5-10 percent through a show/movie would work. Again, I like simple and fast.

Just my thoughts.

-PGPfan

[nigelb]

Perhaps automated chapter insertion every 5-10 percent through a show/movie would work. Again, I like simple and fast.


I can't recall which package it was now but one of the many DVD authoring packages that I have evaluated had an option to do exactly this. I like simple too & this would be ideal for TV shows that I record that I just want to quickly archive without spending a lot of time with menus, backgrounds etc.

[DanR]

Perhaps automated chapter insertion every 5-10 percent through a show/movie would work. Again, I like simple and fast. Many of the major packages have it, such as:Ulead Movie Factory, DVDLab, TmpGenc Author. I'm sure many other do as well, I'm just not familiar with them. With Movie Factory I needed to purchase the upgrade from the "free" edition that came with my DVD burner.

[JER]

I do hope that DVD writing support isn't seen as a "bolt-on" or "plug-in". I say that as I'm keen on reducing processing time as far as possible. It would be interesting to know if it would be possible for the output of the mpeg editing to be split vob files when required for DVD authoring. Other products seem to be go from raw mpeg to edited mpeg, and call up a plug in to turn the edited mpeg into vob's and create the DVD. That means two lot's of mammoth file copying when you would think one would suffice.

[Anonymous]

hey guest-

you've just made a brilliant post. it's going to change the way i use my pvr.. i love your concept of the 'sagedvd'. why am i bothering with the dvd authoring? i'm not distributing my files to anyone else, and not even loaning them out. i'm just makeing dvd-quality recordings of digital cable that are all going to be played back on my own machine. for my own personal use.

i want to batch process multiple mpegs in videoredo, and then just burn those .mpg files to a dvd without bothering with the authoring.

thanks for sharing your thoughts,
-fodder

ps- if you're using sage like i am, why do you want a "burn to dvd" feature in videoredo? i think the real strength lies in batch-processing while you sleep. (even over a network, like i'm doing.) then, when all your files are on your dvd-burning pc, and processed, you can sit there and burn them one by one as you do some non-pc work. your total time in front of the computer will be perhaps a minute or two per mpeg.