No thumbnail in edited dvr-ms

[hochsner]

Hi all,

My configuration is Windows Vista Ultimate and VideoReDo build 512. I record a TV movie from Media Center into a .dvr-ms file (about 5 GByte).

- I import the file into VRD --> no problem
- I edit the file in VRD --> no problem
- I save the file as a .dvr-ms in the same directory (recorded tv) with different file name --> As reported elsewhere in this forum, it uses a couple of minutes to finalize (with lots of disk activity), but the file is saved correctly
- I open MC. The file just created shows up in recorded tv, it plays without problem.
- :mad: MC displays all the meta data associated with the file correctly, but it shows no thumbnail
- :mad: Also the Vista file explorer does display the green MC button rather than the thumbnail whereas all other files in the directory display with their thumbnails

Any idea ?

[hochsner]

Hi all,

I just tried the beta 520 release: still the same problem ...

[qq67]

Yes, i have same problem.

[DanR]

We know about the problem. Not sure why its happening, but we will be working on fixing it in the next few weeks.

[qq67]

We know about the problem. Not sure why its happening, but we will be working on fixing it in the next few weeks.

Is there a possibility to make thumbnails for avi files that I already edited? if there is not I cant use videoredo in next few weeks :(

[DanR]

You should be able to, but we can't guarentee anything until the problem is resolved.

[qq67]

is there any news about the problem? i would like to buy it :)

[JohnDoranNY]

I have the same problem but its sporatic. 9 out of 10 files convert fine but there is always that 1 out of 10 that i have to redo 2 to 5 times before i can get a working thumbnail for the dvr-ms file. I have played with the settings for editing and that does not help... and on one recording, i deleted the original and no matter how many times I try to use the edited version (that doesn't show thumbnails) I can't get a resulting file that thumbnails under Media Center or explorer. Frustrating. Has anyone figured out why or a fix to this?

Thanks
John Doran

[DanR]

John, I assume you're running Vista?

[JohnDoranNY]

John, I assume you're running Vista?


Sorry, Yes I'm running Vista Ultimate. After my last post, I noticed almost all my thumbnails are gone except for non-edited (just recorded) *.dvr-ms files. I searched out on the net for everything I can find, including deleting the *.db thumbnail cache files everywhere to force Vista/Media Center to rebuild but to no avail. I read that Nero v7 can cause this but I've had Nero installed for months and no problem with thumbnails at all until I edited using VideoReDo... so I'm clueless.

John

[TheOfficeMaven]

Has this issue been resolved yet?

I've been holding off purchasing VideoReDo until this particular issues has been fixed (as it's really annoying when using the Vista MC UI). If not, then I guess that I'll continue to hold off until it has been addressed.

BTW, last time I tried VideoReDo I had both DVR-MS thumbnail problems. I.e. the problem where the thumbnails don't appear in the Vista MC UI and the problem where the thumbnails don't show up in the Windows Explorer. I can live with the no thumbnails in the Windows Explorer problem, but not the problem where the thumbnails don't appear in the Vista MC UI.

I'm currently using DVRMSToolbox and it has the no thumbnail in the Windows Explorer problem but NOT the no thumbnail in the Vista MC UI problem. Thus, it is indeed possible to fix the problem. The VideoReDo developers simply need to put some thought into the problem is all.

I'll continue waiting until a fix comes along. VideoReDo is a great app, but not worth $50 to me unless this issue can be fxed (as all I want/need it for is editing DVR-MS files).

Thanks!

[DanR]

Has this issue been resolved yet?
Not yet. We have a developer assigned to it, just waiting for him to finish his current project. Maybe another week or so if we are lucky.

Also, you can't compare VideoReDo with toolbox. We use totally different technology to edit.

[qq67]

is there any solution yet?

[DanR]

Not yet. We have a developer assigned to it, just waiting for him to finish his current project. Maybe another week or so if we are lucky.
Keep on eye on the beta release notes, we will be sure to post something.

[LaLaja]

We know about the problem. Not sure why its happening, but we will be working on fixing it in the next few weeks.

Is there any progress on this? (There was no mention in the latest beta about this issue)

[qq67]

Is there any update?

[DanR]

No update. We have spent tons of hours on this and continue to invest time into it. So far no luck.

[yaksplat]

Any chance it has to do with the WM/MediaThumbTimeStamp attribute?

I wish microsoft would post the definitions of all of these attributes. MSDN has nothing.

[hochsner]

Hi all,

My configuration is Windows Vista Ultimate and VideoReDo build 512. I record a TV movie from Media Center into a .dvr-ms file (about 5 GByte).

- I import the file into VRD --> no problem
- I edit the file in VRD --> no problem
- I save the file as a .dvr-ms in the same directory (recorded tv) with different file name --> As reported elsewhere in this forum, it uses a couple of minutes to finalize (with lots of disk activity), but the file is saved correctly
- I open MC. The file just created shows up in recorded tv, it plays without problem.
- :mad: MC displays all the meta data associated with the file correctly, but it shows no thumbnail
- :mad: Also the Vista file explorer does display the green MC button rather than the thumbnail whereas all other files in the directory display with their thumbnails

Any idea ?
Where are we this issue? It seems partly resolved in the released version 3.1.1.540. Thumbnails show now in the Vista file explorer but still not in the Media Center. Are you still working on it?

[djnikos]

To the developers;

Having a look at both an original recorded DVR-MS file and an edited one, and using 'Edit Dvrms Metadata' program to read the metadata from both files I noticed 2 entries missing.
Please refer to the snapshot;
http://yianniss.customer.netspace.net.au/VideoRedoEditMetadataInfo.JPG

Why are the 2 highlighted metadata entries missing from the edited dvr-ms file?

Are these relevant to thumbnail generation?

Have you tried keeping that specific metadata when saving out to dvr-ms in any builds

Just wondering if this specific metadata is responsible for thumbnail generation any views?

[DanR]

Interesting. It should have been copied, but wasn't. Don't know why, but its pretty easy to checkout.

Would be great if its this simple.

[Mini-Man]

To the developers;

Having a look at both an original recorded DVR-MS file and an edited one, and using 'Edit Dvrms Metadata' program to read the metadata from both files I noticed 2 entries missing.
Please refer to the snapshot;
http://yianniss.customer.netspace.net.au/VideoRedoEditMetadataInfo.JPG

Why are the 2 highlighted metadata entries missing from the edited dvr-ms file?

Are these relevant to thumbnail generation?

Have you tried keeping that specific metadata when saving out to dvr-ms in any builds

Just wondering if this specific metadata is responsible for thumbnail generation any views?

Apparently those tags are used to identify it as either a Video, Movie, Music videos or TV shows. Might be why it's not adding the thumbnail. Here is a knowledge base article (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929005) that refers to these tags.

I just bought VideoReDo a few days ago and thrilled with the product, but stop using it after noticing the thumbnail issue. If this is indeed the problem, would there be a way to manually add these tags to files that have already been edited? If so, I can get back to editing my files and will address this issue later.

[daz1970]

Any news on this?

[TheOfficeMaven]

Please, please, please...

[DanR]

We have researched this issue for days, but no luck yet. Its not for lack of trying, but trying to figure out what MCE is looking for that we aren't providing. Lots of the DVR-MS components are not fully documented so you have to try things out until it works.

If anyone knows someone in the MS eHome (aka MCE) group that might be of assistance, that would certainly help.

[pporzer]

The famous Mr. Stephen Toub from Microsoft who wrote some amazing articles on MCE programming

(http://blogs.msdn.com/toub/archive/2007/09/22/fun-with-dvr-ms.aspx)

has once mentioned that he had a tool developed for exactly the purpose to transfer thumbnails into the metadata or streams of a dvr-ms file; unfortunately I didn't find any trace of it, I reckon that he never published it.
This is a small copy of his blog where he announced this tool:

(http://blogs.msdn.com/toub/archive/2005/05/12/416874.aspx)


Tuesday, December 12, 2006 2:00 AM by Troy
# re: Edit DVR-MS Metadata

What if you want the little picture icon that is associated with a DVR-MS file? I have a dvr-ms file that I edited then I saved it with what I thought was all the metadata but the icon is not there. Is there a tool that will copy the icon from one dvr-ms file to another?



Sunday, December 17, 2006 3:04 PM by toub
# re: Edit DVR-MS Metadata

I wrote a tool that will do it, but I haven't found the time yet to clean it up. As soon as I do, hopefully soon, I'll post it.


Maybe contacting Mr. Toub could help solve the riddle of the vanishing video thumbnails?

Peter

[pporzer]

I found a reference to a small program in the article I mentioned in my previous post.

http://blogs.msdn.com/toub/attachment/5061192.ashx

It is designated as old code (it does not follow the design of the recently published Media Center SDK from Feb of this year) but I could execute one of the programs under Windows Vista without problems.
The program is DvrmsEditor.exe.
I took a DVB-T recording from my Media Center folder, did some cut-editing (which is btw cruelsome to do in this program) and wrote the modified file back into my media folder.

The modified file has now a new thumbnail visible in WMC (time location about 5 minutes from start of movie) and all the metadata are left intact (Title, contents description etc.).

Unfortunately this means that the playtime is still the playtime from the unedited file.

Interesting is that now explorer doesn't show a thumbnail picture in the file list.

Looking through the source it appears that Mr. Toub just copies all the old file tags into the new file.

The source code is included in the aforementioned zip file - it should be fairly easy for the experts at VideoRedo to use this to solve the nasty missing thumbnail issue.

[deucea729]

To me, this is the one last remaining issue to make VRD basically perfect for my needs. Here's hoping you guys are able to solve this one...

[tangoalpha]

I too would really like to see a fix to this. It is somewhat embarrassing when friends come over and they ask why the shows that don't have commercials also don't have the thumbnail. I just kind of shrug my shoulders ;)

[TheOfficeMaven]

Just as an FYI... The author of DVRMSToolbox has posted the source code to a class he wrote (written in C# I believe) that also shows how to grab a bitmap of a DVR-MS file at a specified time. Here's the link if anyone's interested:

DvrmsThumbnail - Grab a bitmap of a dvr-ms file at a specified time (http://babgvant.com/blogs/andyvt/archive/2008/03/31/dvrmsthumbnail-grab-a-bitmap-of-a-dvr-ms-file-at-a-specified-time.aspx)

[tangoalpha]

Unfortunately, I have no idea how to use this information in your link. He references the possiblity of creating an executable file, but I haven't been granted a username/password to the site yet to post to the forum....

[deucea729]

This really seems like it is some sort of database association issue within VMC, as the binary thumbnail info appears to still be written into the metadata of the output file from VRD.

My setup and pattern of thumbnail failure seem to support this. I typically record directly to my local HDD, then copy the unedited file to a watched folder on my NAS. The moved file shows up perfectly with thumbnail and all metadata in VMC Recorded TV. Further, I can edit the file on the NAS, and as long as I swap the edited file into the unedited file's place (keeping the filename exactly as it was for the unedited file), VMC still then reads the edited file's thumbnail correctly.

The trouble starts if I ever have to restart Vista or VMC when the NAS is unavailable for any reason (I have it set up to sleep much of the day until I am home from work). If I do this and enter VMC Recorded TV while the NAS is off, it seems to reset all of the database associations within VMC, as whenever the NAS comes back online (and after yet another VMC restart), the thumbnails for edited files are then missing.

Just based on this behavior, I really think this has more to do with some sort of VMC database association than the actual information in the file. Just a hunch - I have no idea how the actual VMC database works. But if someone could find out how to just regenerate thumbnails within the VMC database - similar to deleting thumbs.db in previous Windows versions - that would seem to be the answer.

[ErwinC]

Is see that this issue is still not resolved.
A work around is to use a jpg file (don't know the resolution have to test) that has the same name as the video file.
It will show this jpg in MCE and extenders.

[HyperReality]

A change has been made to the latest TVSuite beta (build 558) that is reported to address this problem (though currently with some caveats for NTSC material).

See this thread (http://www.videoredo.net/msgBoard/showthread.php?t=6535) for details.

[ErwinC]

Gonna have to wait for the release I supose.
I'm testing the current version, but I will buy it cause I been searching and trying for week to convert my, to ISO ripped cd to a same quality file to use on my Vista MCE, XBOX 360, Linksys DMA 2200 Media extender, Creative Zen M Vision.
There was always something wrong wxith other solution, no fastforward, no extender support, to silent, ignoring PAL/widescreen ratio etc,

I'm very please with the fastness and quality result of Video Redo using DVR-MS files. The quality is identical to the original cd, the aspect ratio is correct. The sound is correct. Very fast. A standing ovation from me for your team.
There is even a commercial cutter for DVR-MS files .
Great, great, gonna get my Visa card now :-)