Urgently Needed Features

[dilbert]

Dan I have found that the 209 version does indeed work for my mpgs and the sound is ok also.

#1: Whether working in Frame Accurate Editing mode or not (I tried both). The frame advances at x4 instead of x1. Without this fix I can't do any editing, as i can't get the edit preciseness that i need.
Example:
.00 first frame
.04 next frame
.08 next frame after

It most definitely needs to be, so that the frame forward or reverse is x1 frame only.
Example:
.00 first frame
.01 next frame
.02 next frame after that

#2: The words Sel. Start and Sel. End is misleading, Mark In and Mark Out is more understanding.

#3: The Mark In and Mark Out markers are the wrong way round being ] [ opposed to [ ]
Example:
[Selection or Clip] is contained and clear
]Selection or clip[ universally means non contained

#4: When you make a Selection or Clip from the Mark In and Mark Out buttons can this be made to turn green automatically without pressing Add Selection or Add Clip

#5: On The Scene List Any chance to have an an option to view the first clip in a small picture instead or the Clip times. A Picture for me is quicker to see and comprehend.

#6: When saving for example a 3gig movie can we have an option to save the movie in Xmb. I dump a lot of movies at the moment to cdr at 700mb and would like the mpg to self split with frame accuracy giving me MyFileName 01.mpg, MyFileName 02.mpg, MyFileName 03.mpg etc for the whole movie output. Also to be very accurate when we rejoin them later into a 3gig movie again in VideoRedo. This option would also be good for dvd getting the last ounce of space filled, being able to save at a user defined size.

#7: Unless I missed it in the help file, with three music videos on the Scene list. How is it possible to save each one individually with their own file name ?

[DanR]

Dilbert,

#1, I'll check this out on the files you've previously uploaded. VideoReDo is Frame accurate so if you can't position to a frame, then something is wrong. I'll get it fixed.

#2, The Sel. Start / Sel. End was specifically chosen becuase the Mark In/ Mark Out is misleading in Scene mode. Perhaps others on the board will give their opinions. However, a future 1.x release will be skinnable so you can change them to whatever you want.

#3, The markers are not backward. If you go with [ ] instead of ] [, then the tails at the top and bottom overlap when the cuts get small. I think that looks ugly. Any other opinions? Maybe they can be skinnable as well.

#4, I like that idea, a lot. :) Will have to think about it some. But here's a quick thought, let me know what you think.
a) Add option called auto select to the Tools>Options>General Option.
b) If auto select enabled, the selection buttons become labelled Mark In/Out.
c) If you click on Mark Out AND the cursor is to the right of the Mark In tag, it will automatically cut (or paste if in scene mode) the space between the mark-in and the cursor.

#5, I thought about this, and its on the list for the future. On problem though is that many people cut scenes during the black transitions. In this case all you would see are black videos.

#6, This is one of the most highly requested features. I was going to rush it into a maintenance release, but the rushed version wasn't up to the quality that VideoReDo users have come to expect. I have a much more elegant design that I'll present for discussion in this forum in the near future. I would expect to see a beta on this within the 30-60 days and a full release about 30 days after that. The basic problem of splitting at exactly the, for example, 700MB mark is that you might be splitting in the middle of a sentence or word. My design would overcome this issue, as well as add several important enhancements as well. I'll post more on this in the next week.

#7. No, today you how to do three seperate saves. My proposal for #6 above would address this as well.

Great discussion, lets get some more feedback.

[Patrick]

Yes, do #4, would be actually saving a key press, hence make it easier and faster once you grasp the concept.
Cool idea.
rgds
Patrick

[bitter_old_man]

#2. No preference. Either way, it seems obvious to me what the buttons are supposed to do.

#3. I'm with you on the markers, Dan.

#4. Great idea.

Barry

[texneus]

#1: I think what is happening is the counter is advancing seconds, not frames. I would prefer it count frames myself.

#2: Agree. I don't know how many times I've gotten lost either looking for "Mark" or hit "Sel. Start" thinking it means move the cursor to the start of the video.

#3: Agree also, but no big deal either way.

#4: I guess I'm the odd one out. I like having to push the 'cut' button manually, sorta an "are your sure?" thing I guess.

#5,6: No comment. It's not a feature I would use.

#7: You have to cut the 2 music videos you don't want, then save. Repeat for the other two.

[DanR]

I think what is happening is the counter is advancing seconds, not frames. I would prefer it count frames myselfI think texneus is correct. However in Build 201 onward you can switch to frame # in the time code using an option on Tools>Options>General Parameters. Let me know if fixes it.

I guess I'm the odd one out. I like having to push the 'cut' button manually, sorta an "are your sure?" thing I guess.When this gets done there will be an option to enable it.

texneus, How do you get the BBS to put "texneus wrote:" before a quote?

[dilbert]

#1
Quote:
I think what is happening is the counter is advancing seconds, not frames. I would prefer it count frames myself
I think texneus is correct. However in Build 201 onward you can switch to frame # in the time code using an option on Tools>Options>General Parameters. Let me know if fixes it.

Sorry about that guys I missed it it squashed up there in General Parameters. Works Like a treat now, and precise accuracy.

#4
I like that idea, a lot. Will have to think about it some. But here's a quick thought, let me know what you think.
a) Add option called auto select to the Tools>Options>General Option. - Agree

b) If auto select enabled, the selection buttons become labelled Mark In/Out. - Agree

c) If you click on Mark Out AND the cursor is to the right of the Mark In tag, it will automatically cut (or paste if in scene mode) the space between the mark-in and the cursor. - Depends if in both modes the cut or paste will go to the scene list ? - When in cut mode would it be, still easy to re-edit the cut clip. If it was not marked in or out precisely ?

#5
I thought about this, and its on the list for the future. On problem though is that many people cut scenes during the black transitions. In this case all you would see are black videos. - Yes this would be a problem, best to leave it how it is. It would not only be impractical, but would also would steal the Scene list space. Unlees some other idea can be thought to make this possible. Of course user selectable via the options to turn off or on.

[texneus]

texneus, How do you get the BBS to put "texneus wrote:" before a quote?

Don't know why it's not working for you but all I'm doing is to hit the reply button in the post and it comes up that way. The HTML is 'quote="DanR"' at the start of the quote and '/quote' at the end. Replace the apostrophies with [square brackets] to make it HTML. You can edit the name to be anything you want, like

I'm sorry Dave, I can't do that.
or
Explain to me again how sheep's bladders can be used to prevent earthquakes.
or maybe even
:twisted: Your great Texneus, I'm refunding your VideoReDo payment, it's on me. Free lifetime upgrades too.:twisted:

[BroadbandBrat]

Dan,
I can't give you and any others resposible for this program enough credit! I have tried some of the most expensive to some of the cheapest programs to do some simple editing with very disappointing results. The expensive one's are too complex for simple tasks not to mention very slow. The cheap one's simply fall on their face when expected to do real work with mpegs over 500MBs.

VideoReDo is simply brilliant!! Thanks to you I can easily edit mpegs 3 GBs or more in a very intuitive enviroment in minutes! I have yet to read the help file! I am very happy to have discovered this program as suggested by a user in the Snapstream forum. You have a another loyal follower :D and his money too.

Now I do a have a couple of features to request. As previously suggested, how about not just a frame counter, but a nice SMPTE counter? hh:mm:ss:ff in selectable or both 24 and 30 fps This be useful for keeping track of where you have the edits points set to in the program or on paper. Since this is a frame accurate editor it shouldn't pose a problem. The counter with fractions of seconds are not as useful as actual frame numbers.

My second one is variable speed playback in both directions with audio. My idea is by holding a certain key while using the mousewheel one could "rock back and forth" through the edits at different speeds and verify audio is where you expect it to be before making the edit. Something like 75% and 50% speeds would work.
Thanks Again!! :D :D :D

[DanR]

VideoReDo is simply brilliant!! What more can I say but thanks. :D

As previously suggested, how about not just a frame counter, but a nice SMPTE counter?Which build are you using. If you are using one of the later beta version available on our FTP site: ftp://videoredo:videoredo@ftp.drdsystems.com/Betas/ that option is there. Just go to Tools>Options>General. You'll see the check box on the upper right. I've got a nagging problem to fix with LPCM audio and then I'll release the beta as an official version.

My second one is variable speed playback in both directions with audio.Variable speed forward (high speed scan) is on the list, but audio is normally disabled during that process. I've had a few requests for reverse play (no audio again), but have so far not committed to anything on this. Your request for audio during variable speed is something I'll have to think about.

[phd]

Editing home movies with audio on, the scrubbing has been very useful in other editors. Haven't needed it in VRD but might be a nice option as long as it can be turned off as well because if you don't need or want it, it can be annoying.

[DanR]

Editing home movies with audio on, the scrubbing has been very useful in other editors. Haven't needed it in VRD but might be a nice option as long as it can be turned off as well because if you don't need or want it, it can be annoying.I'd be interested in looking at an editor that plays audio during scrubbing. Can you suggest one?

[phd]

Media Studio Pro 7, Final Cut Express and Pro.

Also, I believe Moviestar 4 (cheap POS) but this one I'd have to go back and double check.

I think Adobe Premiere did also, but I'd have to double check that one.

[Anonymous]

hi, it's fodder here. soon, i will register my username :)

im writing to address point #6 above. the feature requested was an ability to save an mpeg file with a targeted X MB's in size.

i *think* that reducing an mpeg's size by a few % can be called TRANSDUCING, and is done without a re-encode. i think that's how REJIG and DVDSHRINK work. am i correct?

i would love to be able to transcode an mpg file into a slightly smaller file, since many of my mpeg's a just a bit too big for a dvd. the problem with REJIG is that it will transcode the video portion only of an mpeg, and you have to use a separate tool for the audio. if videoredo would do both in a single transcode step, (or the appearance of a single step) that would be a useful feature for many.

if you only change by a few %, or maybe a few tenths of a GB, (i.e. a few hundred MB's) the quality loss is tolerable.

over on myHTPC.net forums, a user with login name CYBERVILLIAN is using these kind of tools to accomplish the same thing as part of a larger project. (that's the '1-click mpeg to DVD solution' thread.)

it's located here:

http://myhtpc.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7030&highlight=

-fodder

[DanR]

There was a discussion somewhere else on this board about whether it was re-encoding or transcoding. I vote for using the transcoding terminology myself.

Transcoding is a requested feature, but with a great free tool like DVDshrink I wonder how practical it would be to add that feature into VideoReDo. After editing, why not author your DVD and then pass it through DVDShrink to get it down to size?

However, I would certainly consider adding the capability into VideoReDo if there was enough demand for it.

[Anonymous]

dan-

i'm not sure about the demand for transcoding in videoredo, but it's a feature that seems philosophically in line with one of videoredo's already appealing abilities: it can splice mpeg video without re-encoding.

-fodder

{as an aside, i am on the verge of not bothering to author dvd's any more. i just got the idea from someone in your forums. it's an extra step, and i think it takes longer to author and burn than just burn an mpeg stream file. i'm not distributing my mpegs, so why author? i can always author the .mpg file in the future if there's any reason to do so.}

[bitter_old_man]

I would vote against having this in VideoReDo. It's easy enough to transcode an MPEG with ReJig or DVD files with DVDShrink. Both tools are free and easy to use. I'd rather see VideoReDo stay lean and mean.

Barry

[DanR]

i'm not sure about the demand for transcoding in videoredo, but it's a feature that seems philosophically in line with one of videoredo's already appealing abilities: it can splice mpeg video without re-encoding. You are quite right, it would definately be a natural feature for VideoReDo and its on the list for consideration. I'm not yet ready to make a public commitment to include it yet.

i am on the verge of not bothering to author dvd's any more. i just got the idea from someone in your forums. it's an extra step, and i think it takes longer to author and burn than just burn an mpeg stream fileI've heard about this too, but haven't tried it yet. From what I understand, you can copy an MPEG to a DVD and many standalone players will play it. No chapters though which is a big negative for me.

[Anonymous]

dan- that's cool, of course i totally understand and do appreciate your consideration.

bitter_old_man- rejig can transcode the video, as you mentioned, but you have to use a separate tool for the audio, like bbdemux in the bbtools package. i do agree with you about videoredo being lean and mean and extremely reliable- i love that.

-fodder

[DanR]

but you have to use a separate tool for the audio, like bbdemux in the bbtools packageNo need to use bbdemux. Why not use VideoReDo to output elem. streams directly. Simply select elem. streams for the output file type.

[bitter_old_man]

Why not use VideoReDo to output elem. streams directly. Simply select elem. streams for the output file type.
As I pointed out in another thread, the mpv stream is not accepted by all DVD authoring apps; an mpv stream created by manually demuxing is.

Barry

[DanR]

As I pointed out in another thread, the mpv stream is not accepted by all DVD authoring apps; an mpv stream created by manually demuxing is. I reviewed your old msg, and I realize that I mis-interpreted it. I'll check into why myDVD doesn't import VideoReDo mpv files.

[DanR]

I found a Version 3 of myDVD on one of my systems and was able to load VideoReDo .mpv stream without any problem. What exactly does myDVD say? Are you using build 221 of VideoReDo?

Thanks.

[bitter_old_man]

Dan,

With MyDVD 5.2, and build 221, I can import the video stream if it doesn't have the same name as the audio stream. Weird.

Adobe Encore will import the elementary video stream, but will always re-encode it. If I demux the MPG myself, no re-encoding is needed.

Using MPEGAn to look at the files, the major difference I see is in the VideoReDo elementary video stream the constrained_parameters_flag = 1, in all other files which work without re-encoding the flag is 0.

I can only test with Encore for a couple of more days. My trial is about to expire.

Barry

[DanR]

Barry,

Give GOP accurate editing a try in VideoReDo and see what happens, maybe on a couple of small cuts so it doesn't take much time. In GOP editing, the MPEG headers are passed through without modification.

In frame accurate, we rebuild the headers during the encoding process. However, according to the code, the contrained_parameter_flag is set according to the source material, so it should be the same. The constrained_parameter_flag is ignored for MPEG2, but the spec says it should be 0.

Can you replicate this behavior on a small clip which you can upload? I've looked at a 1/2 dozen files, pre- and post-editing, and all of them have contained parameters of 0.

Did VideoReDo change the header depending upon whether you output to Program Stream or Elem. stream? It shouldn't have.

[bitter_old_man]

Dan,

I can't replicate the constrained parameter flag behavior today, even though I'm using the same source material. :cry: It must be the "random perversity of inanimate matter". :lol:

Today's test: I set a range in VideoReDo and saved as an mpg and then as elementary streams. I demuxed the mpg. The only differences MPEGAn shows are in vbv_delays and time_codes. Encore has no problem with the manually demuxed stream.

In the GOP accurate case, the only differences are in the time codes.

I just looked at the Encore forums and other people have reported problems with importing m2v/mpv files, even from Adobe's own Premiere Pro. So this may well be an Encore problem. Don't spend any time on this.

Barry

[DanR]

If you take a source MPG file and load it into VideoReDo and then output elem streams, they should be identical to the elem streams created by bbdmux. Unless there's a hidden bug (never happens :( ) I can't see why there should be any difference.

I'll put this on the "back burner" until I hear from you again.

[bitter_old_man]

Dan,

I set a range in VideoReDo (frame accurate), then saved as an mpg and as elementary streams. I demuxed the mpg with bbdmux, and compared the video stream it produced with the elementary stream from VideoReDo. Using bbvinfo with verbosity at 2, then looking at the differences in the two outputs, I get this:

File frame_acc_elem.mpv is an MPEG-2 video stream File frame_acc_mpg_bbdmux.m2v is an MPEG-2 video stream
vbv_delay = 39068 vbv_delay = 21050
vbv_delay = 36599 vbv_delay = 18581
vbv_delay = 37558 vbv_delay = 19540
vbv_delay = 38268 vbv_delay = 20250
vbv_delay = 51080 vbv_delay = 33062
vbv_delay = 49631 vbv_delay = 31613
The vbv_delay values are different in 6 places.

Using bbvinfo with verbosity set to 3, I get the same differences as above, plus this for the VideoReDo elementary stream:slice_start_code = 0x00000173
quantiser_scale_code = 0
extra_bit_slice = 0
These 3 lines do not appear in the manually demuxed stream.

The video stream from bbdmux does not require re-encoding in Encore; the elementary stream produced directly by VideoReDo does require re-encoding.

Doing the same with GOP accurate files, the only difference I get is with bbvinfo at verbosity 3. The following lines from the VideoReDo elementary stream:slice_start_code = 0x00000173
quantiser_scale_code = 0
extra_bit_slice = 0
As in the frame accurate case, these 3 lines are not found in the bbdmux'ed stream.

Again the manually demuxed stream does not need re-encoding in Encore, the VideoReDo elementary stream does.

Barry

[DanR]

Thanks Barry, that's useful info and I'll check it out.

[DanR]

Hi Barry,

I found the problem, it will be fixed in the next beta build, hopefully out on Friday. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

[bitter_old_man]

Dan,

Thank you for fixing it.

Barry

[DanR]

Barry,

Thank me after I've released and tested it. :)

[DanR]

Barry, the beta build has been posted, please give it a try.

ftp://videoredo:videoredo@ftp.drdsystems.com/Betas/

[bitter_old_man]

Dan,

Comparing the VideoReDo elementary stream with the bbdmux'ed stream, the VideoReDo elementary streams (both GOP accurate and frame accurate) have the following in the bbvinfo output:
slice_start_code = 0x00000173
quantiser_scale_code = 0
extra_bit_slice = 0These are the last three lines of the bbvinfo output and are not present in the manually demuxed streams. Because of this the VideoReDo elementary stream is always 4 bytes larger.

My Encore trial expired, so I installed the trial version on my brother's machine and Encore still re-encodes the VideoReDo elementary video stream and does not re-encode the bbdemux'ed stream.

Barry

[bitter_old_man]

That extra slice start code is definitely the problem. I took a hex editor and zeroed out the last two bytes of the file so the extra slice start code was 0x00000000, drove to my brother's house and tried Encore again. The modified file loads fine and Encore doesn't have to re-encode it.

Barry

[DanR]

Barry, I'm working on it as we speak. The extra 4 bytes in the elem stream video file are supposed to be a sequence end code. I was just about to pull up a hex editor of my own and see what's really in there.

Did you say there was a free trial of Encore? If so, I'll download it and check it out myself. Should save you the drive. Just curious, what were the last 4 bytes in your file before you zeroed them out? Should have been:

x0 x0 x1 xb7

[DanR]

Barry, Never mind I found the problem with that last byte. Wasn't being set correctly, its value is indeterminate. It will be fixed in the next build.

[dilbert]

With the option six some people are getting confused in thinking, that i meant re-compress the mpeg2 file to 700mb. Sorry if you are confused by this, but all i meant. Was to split a vrd edited mpeg2 file, in two or more 700mb separate files, no re-compression, into any other format at all.

Dan an idea if the new feature was made to be selectable from the options for a new counter to be placed on the vrd main screen. To show how big any clip on the timeline is. And would be always active for clip sizing for mb or kb and be very accurate. Say adding even one frame to an edit would also show precisely on the size mb/kb counter in real time.

Mb or kb selectable from the options also, for user preference.

[DanR]

Dilbert, I wasn't confused I knew what you meant. :)

The code to display the number of input and output bytes is in build 223, but its disabled since there's still a small problem and a number of people were waiting for features to test so I couldn't wait. If you download build 223, you'll see that the screen has changed slightly, the box in the lower right is larger since there will be additional info there such as the size.

A couple of caveats about the size that will be displayed on the screen. Its pretty accurate but not exact. That's because the packet overhead isn't determined until you actually go through the output routines. For example, if you change the packet size from 2028 to something else, all the overhead calculations will change. Way too much work to try and figure it all out down to the last byte. I'll get you within a few MB of accuracy though. Figure better than 1% which is 7MB / 700MB.

[bitter_old_man]

Dan,

The Encore trial is here: http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/product.jsp?product=76&platform=Windows
It's 83.9 MB. You do not need the update on that page.

The drive to my brother's house is no big deal...it's only 5 miles.

In case you still want to know what those last 4 bytes were: x00 x00 x01 x73
That's what bbvinfo was reporting as a slice start code. I looked at some older streams I still had around and they all ended with those same 4 bytes.

Barry

[DanR]

Mine ended in 00 00 01 cc. As I said the last byte was random. I'll check out Encore, but frankly it should be a little more tolerant. You should see some of the crap MPEG streams I see on a daily basis. :)

[bitter_old_man]

You should see some of the crap MPEG streams I see on a daily basis. I don't even want to think about that. :D

Thanks for all your hard work.

Barry

[dilbert]

Cheers Dan i didn't expect to see this feature before v226 but you have come through once again, must have been many requests for it ;)