Moving from DVD to Blu-Ray

[amalsher]

I guess this is a topic that will become more relevant.
I have a large library of DVDs with programs recorded from TV.
I've already made the move from VHS to DVD.
At some stage soon, the boss will want me to reduce still further the amount of space these programs occupy, and I would like to move them to Blu-Ray.
Does anyone else have this need? If so what's the best way to do it?
I understand that Blu-Ray capacity is typically 25 x that of DVD, so my 2000 DVDs should condense down to 80. Is this realistic?
My current library is a mix of VHS quality and DVD quality, and I'd like to take advantage of higher definition for any new recordings.
I envisage a PC with a DVD autochanger + a Blu-Ray writer, and would wish to make the process as automated as possible.
Does anyone have any suggestions as to best hardware and software?
Is it possible to mix HD and SD quality on the same blu-ray disk?
I don't want to have to re-author manually or recreate menus etc., but I do want to play the resulting video programs on a blu-ray player.
Perhaps I should ignore that latter requirement and just install a PC with a RAID array of 10 terabytes?

Thanks for any thoughts.
Alan Malsher

[phd]

Another couple of options to consider.

I use a media jukebox (Mediagate MG-35)

My model is SD only but there are HD versions. It has an internal hard drive. You can copy DVD folders to it and it will play back the DVD structure from the IFO file.

I also have a networked hard drive and the Mediagate will also play files from the network.

[zaphod7501]

I think you're going to have problems until Blu-Ray software tools show up on the scene. Right now, most options are for Blu-Ray data disks, not authored (playable) ones.

A 25x capacity would indicate the use of a different compression method (h264?) and that would require a lengthy software conversion process from mpeg2 to h264. (a three year process for 2000 disks?) A 25Gb disk would only be 5x DVD capacity in the mpeg2 format, not a tremendous saving.

Most of your homemade Blu-Ray playback options are likely to be PC based until software and hardware mature for a few years.

[bits]

I second phd's suggestion....a networked media player + network storage would be IMHO the best all around option. I went this route about 3 years ago because I just did not want to continue burning a pile of DVDs, keep track of them and when push came to shove we were usually too lazy to get up from the couch to get a DVD. Also, there was a growing pile of stuff we would never watch again.

There are a fair number of choices for NMP. I have two Linkplayer2 which have served me very well for the last 2+ years. If I were to purchase one now I would probably get a Popcorn Hour A-100. Reviews have been good and it is very reasonably priced. It is based on the latest sigma design chip set and it will play h264.

As zaphod7501 said to put 25 DVDs on a single Blueray you would have significantly compress your already compressed video (how much PQ you are willing to sacrifice is your decision but you will loose PQ, especially on the VHS stuff) and I doubt that any video format you chose would allow you to play these files in a Blue Ray player. The actual capacity of BR discs is 24-30Gb and most commercial BR discs are mpeg or some variant of that.

What I value about the NMP option is that we can select the recordings we want to watch without getting up, saves space, we watch and delete right from the couch, easy to setup and maintain, NO more DVD burning, flexibility.

I record OTA HD, SD and DVD and watch them all with my network media players. I personally do not advocate re-encoding the original video to some other lossy more compressed video codec so I have enough HDD space to accomodate my needs.

[Anole]

....a networked media player + network storage would be IMHO the best all around option.
I went this route about 3 years ago because I just did not want to continue burning a pile of DVDs, keep track of them and when push came to shove we were usually too lazy to get up from the couch to get a DVD. Also, there was a growing pile of stuff we would never watch again.

OMG, I spent the last three years burning DVDs that I can't find and never watch!
I even have a 3-disc changer, and a new 5-disc changer that plays Ultra DivX 6 !
I never know what disc is in the player - I actually just use one tray at a time. :D
And I did so resist the idea of a media player...


... I personally do not advocate re-encoding the original video to some other lossy more compressed video codec so I have enough HDD space to accomodate my needs.
I personally do not advocate re-encoding anything due to the time it takes!
There is no such thing as enough HDD space, though.
That's what convinced me to go with removable media in the first place.

But frankly, putting multiple shows on a disc is a lot of hard work.
I have been known to make up 2-movie, or 3-movie discs when there are sequels.
And for some TV series, I've put 4, 5, 6 episodes.
But to archive totally unrelated material onto a 25gb disc? I wouldn't consider it.
I remember the days of floppies with multiple unrelated files.
I remember the days of CDroms with multiple unrelated files.
I wasn't going down that same road on 4.5gb DVDs. :cool:

Today, I have one friend wanting Network Attached Storage for his movie collection.
I think that has technical problems, but maybe they'll be overcome.

Another friend is mounting a slide-tray to hold a removable hard drive as a cartridge on his media computer.
So, for the cost of a couple of 25gb blue ray discs, he has 5x the storage, and rewritable capability.

And I'm still trying to figure out how to locate my hundreds of DVDs I've burned! :cool:

[msmart]

And I'm still trying to figure out how to locate my hundreds of DVDs I've burned! Have you looked under couch seat cushion. At least that's where I always find the remote. ;)

[amalsher]

Thanks for all your comments.
As always, this forum comes up with good practical comment.
I'm now convinced that a networked media player is the way to go.
I certainly couldn't face the task of re-encoding everything, and having all files in one logical and physical place certainly simplifies organisation and maintenance of the library - and allows one to spend more time on the couch!
I do in fact have a Pinnacle NMP - but it's not ideal. I'm sure later devices are better. Also, I'm not very impressed with Microsoft's media center stuff.

I note all you good guys are from the USA. As I'm sure you are aware US and UK share many video/broadcast incompatiblities, but your comments have spurred me to investigate what's available in the UK.

Thanks again.
Alan Malsher

[neumannu47]

If I were to purchase one now I would probably get a Popcorn Hour A-100.
Is this unit available for purchase? The web site quotes a price ($179) but then it talks about pre-orders for November 2007.

[bits]

Is this unit available for purchase? The web site quotes a price ($179) but then it talks about pre-orders for November 2007.
I believe you have to register and then they will contact you via email. I have been following the reviews over at the AVS forum and most folks are happy with the unit and the support. I registered a few days ago and have not heard anything but at the moment I am not in a hurry. My current NMP meet my needs and the A-100 is mainly to see what the new sigma chip can do and to be able to play h264. I have no real need for h264 at the moment but who knows what will be in the near term future.

[bits]

Thanks for all your comments.
As always, this forum comes up with good practical comment.
I'm now convinced that a networked media player is the way to go.
I certainly couldn't face the task of re-encoding everything, and having all files in one logical and physical place certainly simplifies organisation and maintenance of the library - and allows one to spend more time on the couch!
I do in fact have a Pinnacle NMP - but it's not ideal. I'm sure later devices are better. Also, I'm not very impressed with Microsoft's media center stuff.

I note all you good guys are from the USA. As I'm sure you are aware US and UK share many video/broadcast incompatiblities, but your comments have spurred me to investigate what's available in the UK.

Thanks again.
Alan Malsher
AVS forum is a pretty good source for information. There is a forum section devoted to networked media players.

A few of the current ones are;

TVIX 4000, 4100, 5100, 6500 - Lots of choices and has been around for quite some time
Zensonic 500, Ziova CS505/510
Linkplayer2 (I think these are still being sold)
Popcorn Hour A-100
Netgear EVA8000

Stay away from the limHD200i or anything made by Tomacro!

You should be cautioned that no current network media player is 100% of what it should or says it is....none! Before moving into the networked media player game you should take a serious look at your expectations. Decide which are the top two or three musts and work from there.

NMP have two main flavors; ones with internal HDDs and ones without. I personally favor the pure streamers that have no internal HDD. NMP with HDDs or the capability for a HDD also come in a few flavors; some play only what is on the internal HDD and some will play both networked media and stuff on the internal HDD.

[Robbi]

Dual layer is 50gb and Here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc#Ongoing_development) its talking of 100gb and 250gb 10 layers developments.

Though all this is of no use if they release the media over priced and too late.

Blu-ray may be the defacto optical storage standard for time to come. Dependant on the prices being low to buying public. If not, and prices remain high, i look forward now. To the next gen media optical starage.

Affordability means everything, more over with dvb recordings that need to be stored/burnt or authored on optical disk. Hard disk was never an option even raided, hard disk is not a trustworthy platform to store data on. Very unreliable, hard fails the cost of recovering data, if recoverable, is very expensive.

So what that blu-ray cost millions to develop blu-ray. They'll lose those millions without us to buy the media and hardware.

[bits]

Dual layer is 50gb and Here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc#Ongoing_development) its talking of 100gb and 250gb 10 layers developments.

Though all this is of no use if they release the media over priced and too late.

Blu-ray may be the defacto optical storage standard for time to come. Dependant on the prices being low to buying public. If not, and prices remain high, i look forward now. To the next gen media optical starage.

Affordability means everything, more over with dvb recordings that need to be stored/burnt or authored on optical disk. Hard disk was never an option even raided, hard disk is not a trustworthy platform to store data on. Very unreliable, hard fails the cost of recovering data, if recoverable, is very expensive.

So what that blu-ray cost millions to develop blu-ray. They'll lose those millions without us to buy the media and hardware.
I hear what you say but for many of us the only video worth being backed up (raided) is our family video....the rest is just not worth the effort or cost...so hard disk works just fine. Plus as mentioned above, HDD provides a lot more convenience. When and if BR discs/burners and players become much more reasonably priced I may use a few of them purely for data archival.

[amalsher]

AVS forum is a pretty good source for information. There is a forum section devoted to networked media players.

A few of the current ones are;

TVIX 4000, 4100, 5100, 6500 - Lots of choices and has been around for quite some time
Zensonic 500, Ziova CS505/510
Linkplayer2 (I think these are still being sold)
Popcorn Hour A-100
Netgear EVA8000



Thanks for the advice. Most of the companies/devices you mention are unknown to me, and it seems not generally available in UK. Of your list the Popcorn looks the best. I've seen very uncomplimentary reviews of the Netgear. I think I'll sticik with my Pinnacle Showcentre until the market matures a little - while keeping an eye on this and AVS forums.
Thanks Bits.
Alan

[laserfan]

I think I'll sticik with my Pinnacle Showcentre until the market matures a littleAlan I have a bunch of these including a SC200 and new SC250 (which AFAIK is just a 200 in a different box). I bought the 250 (despite its older Sigma Designs chip) because my 200 plays everything I throw at it including 720p (high def) Xvid and 1080i 18Mbps HDTV. So I've been happy.

Still, I agree w/your idea to wait--things will always get better (and cheaper)!

[bits]

Alan I have a bunch of these including a SC200 and new SC250 (which AFAIK is just a 200 in a different box). I bought the 250 (despite its older Sigma Designs chip) because my 200 plays everything I throw at it including 720p (high def) Xvid and 1080i 18Mbps HDTV. So I've been happy.

Still, I agree w/your idea to wait--things will always get better (and cheaper)!
I am under the impression that Pinnacle Showcenter does not enjoy a good reputation but I have to admit that I can not find much in the way of reviews. Over time I have become too dependent on the AVS forum and I need to broaden my scope of what is out there. Also, I am pre disposed with a negative bias towards Pinnacle....the first software I purchased for video editing was Pinnacle 6.0 and it was a nightmare! but that was long ago.

What server software do you use? Can you delete shows using the Showcenter remote? Is there any limit on the number of shares (network drives, networked servers, networked PCs) you can view files from? Can the server software be run from a Linux server? Does WIZD work with the 250? Can you have the same folder name on multiple drives and have it show up as a single folder with all of the files? How often do the Showcenteres lock up or need to be powered off? How much system (PC) resources are required to view mpeg files (SD and HD) ? Sorry for all of the questions but the Showcenter is a mystery to me and I want to know more. Any rumors as to when h264 may become a possibility? I assume the lack of h264 means that the 250HD is using the older sigma design chipsets...is that correct?

[amalsher]

I am under the impression that Pinnacle Showcenter does not enjoy a good reputation but I have to admit that I can not find much in the way of reviews.

I have a Pinnacle SC1000 about 4 years old, so this may not be a true reflection of their latest products.
To answer your questions

What server software do you use? Pinnacle MediaManager. It says it's version 1.01.100, build 100. However I have downloaded and installed updates, but it still says the same build. Any company that cannot display it's true software version has to be incompetent.

Can you delete shows using the Showcenter remote? No! And the remote is rubbish. Slow to respond and not at all positive.

Is there any limit on the number of shares (network drives, networked servers, networked PCs) you can view files from? I've never been able to share a network drive - only those local to the server PC.

Can the server software be run from a Linux server? I don't think so.

Does WIZD work with the 250? Don't know.

Can you have the same folder name on multiple drives and have it show up as a single folder with all of the files? No

How often do the Showcenteres lock up or need to be powered off? Seems OK. Very few lockups, but see note below.

How much system (PC) resources are required to view mpeg files (SD and HD) ? For SD, it seems quite reasonable.

Other problems:
The ethernet connector fits into the socket at the back of the Pinnacle like a prick in a top hat (pardon the language). It's lose and frequently fails to make contact.

When viewing more than about 20 high definition photos in one directory, the Pinnacle gives up displaying its menu of photos. Solution: resize the photos to a lower resolution.


I hope this helps
Alan

[bits]

I have a Pinnacle SC1000 about 4 years old, so this may not be a true reflection of their latest products.
To answer your questions

What server software do you use? Pinnacle MediaManager. It says it's version 1.01.100, build 100. However I have downloaded and installed updates, but it still says the same build. Any company that cannot display it's true software version has to be incompetent.

Can you delete shows using the Showcenter remote? No! And the remote is rubbish. Slow to respond and not at all positive.

Is there any limit on the number of shares (network drives, networked servers, networked PCs) you can view files from? I've never been able to share a network drive - only those local to the server PC.

Can the server software be run from a Linux server? I don't think so.

Does WIZD work with the 250? Don't know.

Can you have the same folder name on multiple drives and have it show up as a single folder with all of the files? No

How often do the Showcenteres lock up or need to be powered off? Seems OK. Very few lockups, but see note below.

How much system (PC) resources are required to view mpeg files (SD and HD) ? For SD, it seems quite reasonable.

Other problems:
The ethernet connector fits into the socket at the back of the Pinnacle like a prick in a top hat (pardon the language). It's lose and frequently fails to make contact.

When viewing more than about 20 high definition photos in one directory, the Pinnacle gives up displaying its menu of photos. Solution: resize the photos to a lower resolution.


I hope this helps
Alan
Thanks for the information. I am hoping that laserfan responds as well.