Navigation Issues with Zyxel DMA1000

[andypiper]

I am using vrd+ quickstream fix to make my DVB-T recordings playable on a Zyxel DMA1000. If I don't use quickstream fix then the video is deemed unsupported by the player. For the most part this works well, my problem is that navigating through a recorded file gets progressively less accurate the further I go on. So I can fast forward through the first 5 minutes with second precision. If I try and fast forward 1hr then I can usually only get to within 15 minutes of where I want and longer than that and navigation becomes impossible - the player ends up putting me either at the very end of the file or at some fixed point midway through. I assume this is something to do with the stream itself, although admittedly it could be the player or UPnP server also.

The streams are recorded using WinTV 6 on a WinTV HVR-1300. The broadcast is UK PAL freeview (DVB-T). The UPnP server is TwonkyVision 4.4.3 and the player is a Zyxel DMA1000 with the latest firmware.

Any ideas as to what might be causing this?

I tried a "free" video recoder and this produced even worse navigation problems and very poor audio/video sync.

[phd]

Try installing TVSuite.

Click on the menu: Tools>Options>Stream Parameters and and check "Set header to video bit rate"

[andypiper]

But I only bought vrd+! I was given the impression that these products were the same bar the DVD authoring capabilities. How soon till this feature makes it into VRD+?

I will try your suggestion, but paying $30 more for something that seems like it should work anyway seems a bit rich :(

Does the setting you are referring to modify quickstream fix, or do I need to remux the whole thing manually?

[phd]

In Plus, you can also click the Options button in the file save dialog box and try modifying the header bitrate to more accurately reflect the actual bitrate of the file to see if this resolves your issue.

[andypiper]

In Plus, you can also click the Options button in the file save dialog box and try modifying the header bitrate to more accurately reflect the actual bitrate of the file to see if this resolves your issue.
Is the header bitrate typically used by players to navigate through the file?
What about UPnP servers - do they do the same?
I've long suspected that the lead-in - usually a different program and a different bitrate was causing errors. What about VBR streams?

[DanR]

But I only bought vrd+! I was given the impression that these products were the same bar the DVD authoring capabilities. How soon till this feature makes it into VRD+?We are working on getting VRD+ brought up to date. Was hoping to have it ready by now, but its just isn't done yet. BTW, please don't assume the difference between Plus and TVSuite is mearly DVD authoring.


Does the setting you are referring to modify quickstream fix, or do I need to remux the whole thing manually?
QSF is fine.

[andypiper]

Try installing TVSuite.

Click on the menu: Tools>Options>Stream Parameters and and check "Set header to video bit rate"

No joy. The particular movie that is causing me trouble still has navigation issues. If I fast forward at 100x the video freezes at 30 minutes and then skips to the end (1hr30m), but playing right the way through works fine.

I don't have the original source - so was running QSF on something I had already run QSF on before, I presume this does not matter. Log info is here:

2008-03-31 12:06:39 Program Information
File Name: H:\WinTV\Girl-with-a-Pearl-Earring_33-21_31-12-2007.mpg
File Size: 2357925892 ( 2.20 GB )
Program Duration: 00:00:00.00
File Type: PS - MPEG2
Encoding: MPEG 2
Video stream Id: xE0
Encoding Dimensions: 720 x 576
Display Size: 720 x 576
Aspect Ratio: 16/9
Frame Rate: 25.00 FPS
Bit Rate: 6.500 Mbps
VBV_Buffer: 224 KB
Profile: Main/Main
Progressive: Prog or Int
Chroma: 4:2:0
Audio Format: Layer 2
Audio Stream Id: xC0
Audio Bit Rate: 256 Kbps
Audio Sampling Rate: 48000 Hz

2008-03-31 12:06:39 Starting new Frame Accurate Output Segment: start:0.000 (00:00:00.00), end:450359962737.044 (5795:20:33.03)
2008-03-31 12:06:39 QuickStream fix flag is ON.
2008-03-31 12:18:19 Output complete. Input file: H:\WinTV\Girl-with-a-Pearl-Earring_33-21_31-12-2007.mpg
Output file: Z:\WinTV\Girl-with-a-Pearl-Earring_33-21_31-12-2007.mpg
Mode: Frame Accurate
-Video output packets: 1126259
-Audio output packets: 178680
-Padding output packets: 0
Video output frames: 140989
Audio output frames: 234982
Processing time (secs): 695
Processed frames/sec: 202.85
Actual Video Bitrate: 3.03 Mbps

This particular movie was recorded off BBC 1/2 (DVB-T) which I know can exhibit quite wide variations in bitrate.

I suppose its also possible that the UPnP server is getting navigation messed up because of VBR, although it seems odd to me that video won't fast forward past a particular frame.

Any more suggestions?

Incidentally why do all my movies say "Program Duration: 00:00:00.00"?

[HyperReality]

Have you checked that you are running the latest firmware for your player? Some players have woeful trick play support, particularly in early firmware versions.

[andypiper]

Have you checked that you are running the latest firmware for your player? Some players have woeful trick play support, particularly in early firmware versions.

Yes, I have the latest firmware.

[DanR]

QSF always shows duration at 0:00 because it doesn't attempt to figure out the duration of the file.

[andypiper]

So investigated this a bit more. The option does not appear to have any discernible difference on the navigation. I ran QSF on "Magnolia" (a 3.5hr movie) and trying to jump to 2hr:47m ends up at 3hr:14m, similar (proportional) results for others. The closer to the end and the longer the movie the more inaccurate the navigation. The weird thing is that I have one "Paycheck" (which I ran QSF on) where the navigation is absolutely spot on. The movie is 1hr52m and I can pretty much navigate predictably through it from beginning to end.

File Name: Z:\WinTV\Magnolia_43-22_15-02-2008.mpg
File Size: 3317785024 ( 3.09 GB )
Program Duration: 03:33:56.16
File Type: PS - MPEG2
Encoding: MPEG 2
Video stream Id: xE0
Encoding Dimensions: 720 x 576
Display Size: 720 x 576
Aspect Ratio: 16/9
Frame Rate: 25.00 FPS
Bit Rate: 1.880 Mbps
VBV_Buffer: 224 KB
Profile: Main/Main
Progressive: Prog or Int
Chroma: 4:2:0
Audio Format: Layer 2
Audio Stream Id: xC0
Audio Bit Rate: 160 Kbps
Audio Sampling Rate: 48000 Hz


File Name: Z:\WinTV\Paycheck_14-23_13-01-2008.mpg
File Size: 3956137988 ( 3.68 GB )
Program Duration: 01:52:58.10
File Type: PS - MPEG2
Encoding: MPEG 2
Video stream Id: xE0
Encoding Dimensions: 720 x 576
Display Size: 720 x 576
Aspect Ratio: 16/9
Frame Rate: 25.00 FPS
Bit Rate: 4.350 Mbps
VBV_Buffer: 224 KB
Profile: Main/Main
Progressive: Prog or Int
Chroma: 4:2:0
Audio Format: Layer 2
Audio Stream Id: xC0
Audio Bit Rate: 256 Kbps
Audio Sampling Rate: 48000 Hz

[phd]

Have you checked with the manufacturer to see if they have a resolution for your issue?

[andypiper]

Have you checked with the manufacturer to see if they have a resolution for your issue?

I have put in a call, yes - but of course there are a lot of moving parts here so its difficult to say who is at fault.

[HyperReality]

I have put in a call, yes - but of course there are a lot of moving parts here so its difficult to say who is at fault.
Based on my experience with a wide range of network media players, I suspect that the problem may well be with the player firmware (or more specifically the playback SDK from Sigma Designs on whose chip the player is probably based).

That doesn't mean that there isn't a way to help it along though.

For example, have you tried changing the setting of other various Stream Parameter options in VRD, in case one of them helps with producing output that the player likes better?

In particular, the following Options->Stream Parameters settings:
* Convert all I-frames to GOPs,
* Output PTS with each video frame
* Output PS pack header with each video frame
* Start video frame in a new packet
* Align packet data to word boundary (unlikely to make a difference, but you never know).

[andypiper]

Based on my experience with a wide range of network media players, I suspect that the problem may well be with the player firmware (or more specifically the playback SDK from Sigma Designs on whose chip the player is probably based).

Sigh, yes. And if I could do it again I would probably buy two popcorn hours and avoid this nonsense. The sigma 8621 chip that this streamer is based on is known to have problems with HD and "non-compliant" streams, but of course you don't know these things until you read up when stuff doesn't work...


That doesn't mean that there isn't a way to help it along though.


Well true. My DMA1000 won't play any DVB-T recorded mpegs unless they have been through VRD+ first. So I have to be honest - navigation issues are the least of my worries really. Its just that VRD+ has been so good at fixing all the other problems. But then of course I suspect that these issues are creating a market for VRD+ also, so some symbiosis I feel :)


For example, have you tried changing the setting of other various Stream Parameter options in VRD, in case one of them helps with producing output that the player likes better?

In particular, the following Options->Stream Parameters settings:
* Convert all I-frames to GOPs,
* Output PTS with each video frame
* Output PS pack header with each video frame
* Start video frame in a new packet
* Align packet data to word boundary (unlikely to make a difference, but you never know).

Yep already doing all those :(

[andypiper]

Incidentally can anyone actually tell me how navigation works in a setup such as this? My UPnP server is DNLA compliant - there must be some standard around navigation, after all the server doesn't ship the whole video down to the streamer just so I can get to the right section.

[phd]

Here's something you may find interesting:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=959896

[andypiper]

Interestingly I tried with Tversity and the problems all disappeared - even with my particularly problem mpeg. I don't know whether this is because tversity is transcoding or because of fixes, either way I will probably switch when I have my HTPC built.