Ulead Movie Factory 2.5SE - out of sinch audio

[BogieV]

Hi everyone! New user here and first problems started.

Before buying VRD I didn't really tested extensively but I thought it was pretty good for what I want to do.

Just last 2 TV programs I recorded showed very obvious lip sinch issues. The problem seems to be in the UMF 2.5 SE as the files produced with VDR play fine in MP10.

I had message for few droped frames and something else though after completition with VRD colored in red. Now I didn't do QuickStreamFix but I relyed on the setting for MF streams enabled.

Actually my MPEG2s are captured with Leadteck WinPVR Expert using 8000kbps variable bitrate and 384 MP2 audio. The last show was 3:30h - I cut few adds and output half of the clip in one file and repeat the proccess for the other half.

The resulting 1:40min clips are still big for single DVD so I set up UMF for 6000kbps that reencods to about 4GB DVD complient folders. Funny the bit rate calculator tells me 5710kbps for 4.37 DVD but UMF is always resulting in quite smaller DVD folder.

Whatched with Power DVD the VOB files were getting progresively out of sinch. Funny I couldn't even open the MPEG2 file made by VRD with Power DVD.

Sorry - very mixed post but I read some of the discussions here and couldn't find something definate. I'll try tonight the tweak of the .ini file suggested by phd for UMF and will report back on that. Meanwhile any other suggestions?
Thanks in advance!

[phd]

To answer your questions:

"Just last 2 TV programs I recorded showed very obvious lip sinch issues. The problem seems to be in the UMF 2.5 SE as the files produced with VDR play fine in MP10."
-If they play fine after output, they should be OK.

"I had message for few droped frames and something else though after completition with VRD colored in red. Now I didn't do QuickStreamFix but I relyed on the setting for MF streams enabled."
-Shouldn't be a problem, I get errors on some files also that will work OK on DVD

Actually my MPEG2s are captured with Leadteck WinPVR Expert using 8000kbps variable bitrate and 384 MP2 audio. The last show was 3:30h - I cut few adds and output half of the clip in one file and repeat the proccess for the other half.
-What is the physical size in MB after cutting in half?

The resulting 1:40min clips are still big for single DVD so I set up UMF for 6000kbps that reencods to about 4GB DVD complient folders. Funny the bit rate calculator tells me 5710kbps for 4.37 DVD but UMF is always resulting in quite smaller DVD folder.
-How long does it take to render the DVD to a folder on the hard drive?
If you are allowing DMF to reencode you video, that may be the problem.
Can you select "Do not convert compliant and allow it to make a DVD that is too big and use DVDShrink to shrink it to fit?
Are you authoring to a folder on your hard drive and burning to DVD as 2 separate steps?

Whatched with Power DVD the VOB files were getting progresively out of sinch. Funny I couldn't even open the MPEG2 file made by VRD with Power DVD.
-Don't use PowerDVD. Don't know. Anyone use it?

Sorry - very mixed post but I read some of the discussions here and couldn't find something definate. I'll try tonight the tweak of the .ini file suggested by phd for UMF and will report back on that. Meanwhile any other suggestions?
-Which tweaks did you apply to the INI?
Also did you insert them in the proper section of the INI?

I believe the secret to my success with DMF is to make sure it does not reencode. I capture in a compliant format and the file sizes are always under the maximum capacity of the DVD.

[BogieV]

phd, thanks for the quick reply!

I will try to be more specific.

Few days ago I had slight synch problem and thought VRD might be the reasoon. I haven't had audio synch issues using UMF even when reencoding already captured MPEG2 and cutting parts from the beggining and end with it. It happens after the clip was once edited with VRD.
When I was trying the program I needed joining some kid's animations - then making DVD without reencoding as the file size was in the limit. Didn't have audio problems so you might be right it hapens after reencoding with UMF.

As you can see the initial bitrate was high so half of the show (1:40min) produced 6GB file. I was thinking of making the DVD and then shrinking but I had to use fair amount of compression then (60%?) and thought reencoding will give me better quality.
I have to split small chunk of the show and try to test without reencoding to see if the synch is retained. But in the same time audio issues are more likely to happen on long program so my 5min test might not tell me the truth.

And yes - I read your other post and was pleasently surprised I found by myself something you advice - to prepare the DVD on HDD and burn in diferent program the folders was my choice after some coasters. I also check the DVD on the HDD for playback issues. I also don't use motion menus - just chapter or sometimes main menu and chapter tumbnails. I like the Ulead MF cause I can make pleasent looking DVD with just few clicks.

Some time ago I tried .ini tweak to allow me to use AC3 playback and encoding. It didn't work so I returned the original .ini files. I haven't tried your tweak but I will tonight.

About the capture - I decided to use MPEG2 with higher quality but I should really reconsider this and calculate for each TV program individually. It will save me lot of hadeaches I guess. Now I know till what bitrate the quality is acceptable for me.

Thanks again!

[BogieV]

Here is short report.
I tried different method on my second clip (1h46min).
First made oversized DVD folders with UMF (6.3GB), than transcoded with DVD Shrink (about 68% ). The resulting DVD playes back normally now. Very very slightly the audio is infront the lip - almost unnoticable, but even the original recording has it I think.
Now I did the tweak in the DVDMF.ini file and will try to work on the first clip.
Defenitely the out of synch issue is when the MPEG2 is edited by DVR and then reencoded by UMF.
If for example I edit and reencode within UMF only ther is no such issue.
Also if edit with VRD and use as is without reencoding with UMF gives good results.
Hopefully with the tweak I don't have to think even if reencoding is needed!

[BogieV]

So here is what happened.
I found the re-encoded file in UMF work folder (it keeps the full MPEG2 before making the VOB files with name ~convert##.mpg).
So obviously the problem is after the re-encoding. First intro is in synch and after the second cut I've made with VRD everything is quite off. So I adjusted the Audio with VDR (+360ms) but because it's one file it applies to all parts. So now my first 1-2 min were out of synch but the rest became OK.
I also did the tweak in the dvdmf.ini but don't know if it helped something cause this time I worked with fiting file size for DVD.
I had to split the 2 parts that have different audio synch. Then apply to the second one audio correction and rejoin them. Totally 4 conversions, 3 of which long (as VRD has to copy 4 GB file).
It works finally but I found that still the lip-synch is not perfect - probably my skill in adjusting is not very good.

[phd]

I never trust DMF to reencode. It was always a problem for me. That's why I try to make sure that the files are DVD compliant and small enough to fit on the DVD as is so it will go quickly without sync problems..

The file that you split to fit on the DVD. Was it in sync in VRD? When did the file go out of sync. With no reencoding they should remain in sync.

[BogieV]

Exactly - out of synch after reencode.

1. Total recording ~12.5GB - in synch played with anything.
2. Cut out 2 comercials (just after the beginning and at the very end), then split into 2 files - both played fine in VRD an Media Player.
3. Reencode with UMF 2.5SE - resulting reencoded file is OOS after the place where the comercial was removed.
4. The second file - authored with UMF without reencoding - no OOS problems - then shrinked to fit DVD.

So conclusion is NO reencoding with UMF when cutting with VRD!
I wonder if that would be valid if I use different encoder (TMPEGEnc or Vegas 5's main concept)? Have to try it out.

Anyway phd, thanks for the help - it really matters to hear from people with experience!

[phd]

If you don't own TMPGEnc or Vegas, a fairly cheap alternative might be Mediostream's Xtream MPEG. I've done some preliminary encoding of some files and it looks pretty good. Also very fast. I never had success with TMPGEnc in terms of in-sync files. Don't know about Vegas except its expensive.

They have a free demo of Xtream but it watermarks the output. For testing purposes it will tell you whether or not its worth it. Also it seems to play well with DMF in terms of bringing files in without reencoding (and audio OOS.)

You're welcome. I hate to see people have to suffer through the same stuff I had to!