MPEG-1 editing!

[Gary]

VideoReDo HAS to be one of the best editors out there, but I just discovered that is can't edit MPEG-1 files. There are still MANY people who make MPEG-1 VCD's, so I would certainly LOVE to see MPEG-1 editing added to this great software. The main competition to VideoReDO is likely MPEG-VCR, which can do both MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 editing, so it seems a no brainer to add MPEG-1 editing to this fine software.

Anyone else like to see MPEG-1 added?

[DanR]

Gary, Nice try and as you know I always listen to the user's requests. But, why would anyone vote against it since you haven't presented costs or tradeoffs? I woud like to see MPEG1 support myself, its a quiestion of priorities. The other problem is that everyone on this board is an MPEG2 user. You aren't capturing the audience who decided to skip VideoReDo because they are MPEG1 only.

A better question would have been to rank in order support for: MPEG4, Quicktime, WMV, MS Media Center files, MPEG1, etc. Even better would be to include other requested features from this board such as DVD authoring/burning, Advert. detection, etc.

[Gary]

Dan,

I don't think is true that EVERYONE on this board is an MPEG-2 only user, as I use MPEG-1 for VCD's once in a while myself. I am sure there are others out there too, that's why I added the survey.

You are welcome to modify, or totally delete the survey if you wish, if you feel it is unfair.

As far as other formats, I personally feel that Quicktime is really a MAC format, so can't see any great need to add support for it, or MPEG4, but both MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 are formats that will play on nearly all DVD players, and in fact, even DVD players such as the Sanyo models which does not officially handle VCD's CAN actually play a VCD burned to a DVD by TMPGEnc DVD Author, so, there IS a need to add MPEG-1 editing IMHO.

I just assumed that VideReDo dealt with MPEG-1 files as well when I bought it. Would I have still purchased it had I known it could not edit MEPG-1 files? Yes, as it's a great tool in the editing arsenal, but I would REALLY like to see you add MPEG-1 support ASAP. Why cut yourself out of the VCD market? If it will add to the cost users have to pay, perhaps you can make 2 versions, one with both MPEG-1 and 2, and one with only MPEG-2 support.

Thanks

[DanR]

Gary, I'd like to see the results as well.

[Amontillado]

I have to agree with Gary. I think that most people need to edit mpeg2's most of the time, but every now and then one might need to edit an mpeg1.
I'm one of those users, but its only in approx 5% of all the editing I do.

I do however understand and agree that its not one of the priorities, and I was aware that videoredo didnt do mpeg1 before i bought it.

As for ranking. I guess my ranking would be : Mpeg1, mce files (since these are all mpegs, and are the closest match to the present focus of videoredo) after that it doesn't really matter to me.

But to be honest, it is all of little importance to me, I bought videoredo because i think its a great mpeg2 editor, that is still the case so the product is allready well worth the money.

[Gary]

Hey Dan,

What's the status of getting MPEG-1 support? I have started to make some VCD's again, and would REALLY like to be able to use VideoReDo to edit them. It sure seems to me that MPEG-1 support should be one of the things added, as this is a video editor, and MPEG-1 (VCD) is a popular format.

Thanks!

[DanR]

Hi Gary, We've started along the first steps of editing things other than MPEG2 program streams. It required some additional compartmentalization in the code, which is almost complete. We are therefore in a better position to support alternate stream and encoding formats, like MPEG1.

No promises yet, but the changes we have made internally will mean its much easier to layer MPEG1 on top of the existing code base rather than have to re-write things.

[Harry]

i voted NO.

of course i don't mind if it's in or not. but there are so many mpg-1 or vcd editors out there. and they are free. and most of them keep the sync. besides i don't know when i created my last vcd.

mpeg2 is the future. problem is, there are rare or should i say NO programs out there - except of course 1 :D - which can cut clips out of it which stay in sync.

i suggest to put more work into editing mpeg2 and vob streams with multiple audio streams.

my vision of videoredo is to become the de-facto standard in video editing, which means cutting and joining, or maybe create VTS structures as well with the cut videos.

this does not include authoring, transitions etc, as there are many professional programs out there which do the job. btw: i can't believe that videoredo is the only cutting program which can keep audio in sync while cutting. but it is so, and that's good. finally i'm (nearly) happy, still missing some features like multiple audio cuts or audio stream selection, but i'm sure they'll come :D

[Gary]

Harry,

Please post the names of the FREE programs, and websites for any FREE mpeg-1 editors that can edit a mpeg-1 file without messing up the sync! I have been doing VCD's for 3 years and have NEVER found such an editor.

[Harry]

hi Gary,

depends on what you want to do. of course you can cut with tmpgenc as well:
http://www.vcdeasy.org/modules.php?name=_Guides&id=CutJoin

or you can use vcdcutter. there's also a pro version out which only costs $20.
http://www.seller-club.com/~vcdcut/index.htm
(sorry dan, i don't want to make any opposition to videoredo, but he asked, so feel free to delete this post - well - videoredo is unbeaten anyway :D )

you might also want to take a look at vcdhelp:
http://www.videohelp.com/edit.htm

just use google to find some. but keep in mind: you might need win98 or NT to use such programs, because these programs are OLD, they are the past. mpeg2 is the future. even the chinese switch to mpeg2.

i don't say, that it's bad to include vcd support. the more features the better. i only say that videoredo is no competition on the vcd market, but fact is: it IS competition on the mpeg2 market. and it's heavy competition with it's frame accurate cut. just take a look at the hauppauge forum. it's even better than womble's mpeg2vcr, because the users there have their recorded movies finally in SYNC!!!

and btw, just curious: if you are doing vcd for 3 years, what do you need a new vcd cutter for? i never had problems with vcds and sync.

regards
harry

[Gary]

Hi Harry,

Thanks for the info. Unfortunately, none of those programs can deal with an extremely bad file, such as those produced by the old ADS Instant DVD. I already own VCD Cutter, as well as TMPGEnc, but neither can edit files produced by the old ADS IDVD without totally messing up the sync. I know, as I have looked for such an editor for a long time. The old IDVD used your audio card for audio, but did real-time encoding via a Stream Machine hardware chip. Due to clock differences between the IDVD and the audio card, any attempt to edit the files will make them go out of sync.

I recorded much of the 2002 Winter Olympics on an ADS Instant DVD, and the files just cannot be edited by ANYTHING I have tried without losing sync. I recorded most of them in VCD format for space, but also did 1 of them in SVCD format. Once I bought Dan's great program, I decided to try it on those files. It was able to fully edit the SVCD files without losing sync, but alas, VideoReDo does not support MPEG-1 files, so those remain on a DVD as an ISO for the day when I can finally edit the commercials out without losing audio sync.

I should add that I bought VCD Cutter because it was the one editor that I found that could edit ATI All-In-Wonder VCD files without losing sync, but it can not edit ADS Instant DVD files without losing sync, and is also not frame accurate. My only hope for my once in a lifetime Olympic files is if Dan will add mpeg-1 support, as I I have not found ANY other editor that can chop commercials out of IDVD files successfully.

My VCD's made by capturing to an AVI file and then compressing to VCD do not have the same problems editing at all.

[Harry]

a bit offtopic, but:

did you try vcdgear? it has an mpeg1 conversion and repair function. maybe this could help you:

http://www.vcdgear.com

[Gary]

Never tried VCDgear on those files, but I would tend to doubt it would help, as even PVAStrumento made things worse when I tried it.

The file I need to edit is well over 3 hours long, and the longer the file is, the more problems with sync. The one other editor that might have worked, Nanocosmos, crashed each time I tried it on that same file. ViderReDo is probably the only editor that can save my Olympics treasures.

[zaphod7501]

I know this is not the solution you're looking for but if you can play the original recording OK then you could recapture the program in a different format. Prior to finding VideoReDo my method was to play back a file with my Hollywood+ card (substitute standalone DVD player , VCR , second PC , Xcard , etc for your playback device) and rerecorded it with my Hauppauge PVR250 (substitue your capture device) in a compliant form for authoring. Since the color degradation that occurs with multigeneration tape copies does not occur with digital recording the result was almost exactly the same as the original (I couldn't see any difference).

[Gary]

zaphod7501,

The files the old ADS Instant DVD made are so odd, even trying to reencode them will knock the file out of sync unless the length is very short. An mpeg-1 version of VideoReDo is really my only hope. Every other editor I have tried in the past 2 years has failed to edit the IDVD files and still keep sync.

[Anonymous]

100% add mpeg1 support.

1) My portable only plays VCDs
2) MPEG1 is supported by WMP native
3) almost every new DVD player supports VCD
4) Very compact and cheap compared to DVDR

PN

[panash]

...and how do we vote?

PN

[Carl Rawson]

I'd like to see MPEG2 audio only editing as per a previous post, so I won't bore you with that. Whilst I can understand that Gary you still like to use VCD and SVCD may be the question should be asked with DVD-R being so cheap now ( I can get them at £16.00 for 50, about 57c a piece ) why continue with VCD?
Better to lead and concentrate on MPEG4 and I think it's MPEG7. These are going to be coming to the fore over the next few years and I vote for class leading simplicity and speed rather than what may seem to be a move in the negative direction.
Sorry to seem negative Gary as I'm sure that it's important to you but I'm really enjoying Videoredo and hope it keeps pace ( or outpaces ) the competetion.
:roll:

[DanR]

No need to vote. MPEG1 editing is on the way, and will be available for testing hopefully next week.

[Gary]

Hi Dan,

GREAT news! I captured some VCD stuff a few weeks ago that was WAY too long to do in any other format, so it will come in VERY handy.

Thanks,

Gary

[Peter]

Although I can't see myself using VRD to edit mpeg1 files, they still serve a useful purpose:

I have a low lux security camera, for recording activity in my driveway.

Fortunately it's only cats, racoons and the morning paper being tossed in, plus a skunk wandered through once!

The camera records at 320x240 res. so I capture at that, since the file sizes are manageable. If I went to MPEG 2 capture, I would need huge hard drives to handle the long record times.

These cameras are used to monitor school bus activity, so they are used at a commercial level.

Sure things change as tech improves, but mpeg1 is probably used in more ways than the average pc user thinks.

[Carl Rawson]

Ahh! See your point. I have 3 security camera's linked to another p.c. (colour during day and B&W low lux). They are movement sensitive for a minute but yes the files are big! I just delete them if there's nothing untoward. Windows says that they're MPEG but doesn't state what. I assume that they are MPEG2. They're certainly high quality. I've never thought of using VRD to edit these. Hmmm?
I've only ever seen 1 music VCD and the quality was...well... poor. What kind of material are you recording Gary and what kind of quality do you get?

[Gary]

Carl,

This was video from a 21 hour telethon, WAY too long to use DVD quality. As I was mostly interested in the audio, and was capping off of Dishnetwork, the audio would not have been much different if going higher than VCD quality. Video quality was not bad, but good VCD quality only looks about like video tape at best, so it's not going to look like a DVD no matter what.

[Carl Rawson]

I've got one of those Hauppage t.v.cards. This is where I heard of VRD. I'll tape one off the Hits Channel and create a VCD for fun...just as a throw away. After all they're still a lot cheaper than DVD. My last lot of CD-R's were bought at Sams (warehouse version of Wal-Mart) when visiting family. $16.00 for 100! 9p each!
I'm always keen to explore.
If VCD is about the same as VHS then they could be used for programs I may miss then not want again.
I would be a beginner to VCD. What kind of length of program can you get onto VCD? How did you squeeze 21hrs onto a CDR?

[Peter]

I was using SVCD to burn to CD's a little while back, and I used a profile that a little faster bitrate (2600) than the PVR-250 standard.
To fit 44 mins on a CD you can do it with a bitrate of 2053 and peak of 2500. (These are NTSC settings).

I was reasonably happy with the quality, but the video does have a 'vaseline' type smear to it. Then I got a DVD writer and really noticed a big difference in quality - better than VHS. Of course, I opened up a whole new can 'o worms trying to author/burn DVD's :shock:

As I generally write to re-writeables, the media cost is not an issue, although I do want to create permanent discs. But I figure the cost is really not worth penny pinching due to the extremely higher quality of DVD over SVCD... I mean, we've got the great hardware, why waste it?

It's like having a fast car, but never taking it over the speed limit!

There are ways to get great quality SVCD's with software re-encoding, but they are too time consuming, and defeat the purpose of owning the hardware.

Anyway, 4xDVD+R's are down to CAN$0.50 in bulk!

[Carl Rawson]

£0.21! :P
Where from?

[Peter]

www.futuresop.ca Click on the 'weekly flyer' link at the bottom and plug in my postal code: v3e1n5

or try:
http://www.futureshop.ca/marketing/weekly_flyer/EN/default.asp?logon=&langid=EN&dept=0&WLBS=fsweb24
(might work)

[Carl Rawson]

Thanks Peter!

[Anonymous]

Mpeg1 would be excellent!
I use mostly Mpeg2 but do use Mpeg1 for many specific instances where I don't need the resolution due to smaller file size.

[DanR]

If you want to help us beta test the MPEG1 support for VideoReDo, please send a private email to me.

[Anonymous]

DAN, PLEASE PUT ME ON THE LIST FOR THE MPEG1 BETA EDITOR. I ALSO WOULD LIKE TO BE ABLE TO EDIT MPEG1 FILES!

THANKS, CINDY

[DanR]

Done.