Looking for suggestions on buying new Camcorder...

[GimmeTorq]

Well, I think I'm buying a new camcorder for my wife, to replace our current Panasonic one. It's been a good camcoder but the VHS-C analog technology is just too outdated. I see there are several formats out there: Mini DV, MicroMV, Digital8 and DVD.

Seems MicroMV and Digital8 are Sony exclusively. MicroMV camcorders are out of my budget while Digital8 camcorders are bulky and heavy by today's standards. So I'm concentrating on either Mini DV or DVD.

I don't know much about Mini DV format. Would I have to process this format in a similar fashion as analog video (use capturing tool to convert to mpeg and to then edit it)? Or is this format possible to download/manipulate/edit to create home movies on DVD using a home computer? Are there editing tools supporting this format?

Thanks!

[phd]

It depends on what you want to do.

If you are going to heavily edit your home videos. Use lots of transitions, titles, etc., you may be better off with a DV camcorder. You will have to render to MPEG or DVD afterwards but the quality will be much better due to not editing a lossy video. So this process will take more time.

If you get a DVD camcorder, its quick and convenient. Pop it into your home DVD player and watch it immediately. For quick cut only editing, VideoReDo works great. I have one and record to RAM disk so I can edit and reuse the disks. I copy the .VRO file and use QuickStream Fix, then edit with VRD and author using Ulead DVD Movie Factory. No rerendering the MPEG so it goes quick.

One other benefit with a DV camcorder as opposed to a DVD camcorder is for DV you can now get a 3 chip DV camcorder for the same price as you will spend on a DVD camcorder so the quality will be better.

[Harry]

i got this one:

http://www.dvspot.com/reviews/sony/pc330-review/index.shtml

the quality of DV is awesome :shock: :D

well, a 1 hour movie uses 10 gig HD space. drawback: you have to convert the movie to mpeg2 if you want to burn it on dvd. so you need big hard disk space.

i wouldn't buy a dvd camcorder as i have no trust in their encoding hardware. there's hardly good one out there for a reasonable price. so i rather convert my movies myself with a good software encoder. or if it should go fast, i plug the cam into the back of my hauppauge pvr-350 and record in mpeg2, time is realtime of course, not faster.

phd, how's the quality of yours? is there blockiness or visible mpeg patterns? how about fast movement?

if one's interested, i did a zoom test once, see the result in the image below. left is no zoom, right is zoom from the same position :D

http://img69.echo.cx/my.php?image=zooom8jk.jpg

[phd]

I had picked up the Hitachi DZMV550A as a replacement for my VHS-C camcorder.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0001SADGC/ref%3Dpd%5Fsl%5Faw%5Falx-jeb-9-1%5Fphoto%5F6470267%5F9/002-9228597-3264839

Quality is decent. It does suffer under low light situations, and combining high movement and low light needless to say is a bad combination. Outdoors, quality is great but indoor suffers without good ambient light. On my model, there is no built-in movie light. With good indoor lighting its as good or better than the VHS-C under the same lighting conditions. There is a cold shoe on it so you could attach a movie light.

It has a special low light setting which really does not help. I am just using RAM disks so I have no finalizing issues as mentioned in the reviews. Also using a USB2 port and copying to the hard drive, running QuickStream Fix and then editing is a smooth and quick process for me.

You are right though Harry, the quality of DV is superior, but I was willing to take the tradeoff for time saving and convenience. Also, depending on the software you use, I have heard complaints about audio OOS in the DV to MPEG conversion process. (On the Ulead forum.) If anyone is interested, I could post a couple of short clips to the uploads sections of indoor and outdoor scenes for people to see.

[timdg]

A short time ago PCMag or PC World did a review of camcorders and showed screenshots from MiniDV and DVD camcorders. The quality was quite a bit different with MiniDV substanitally better.

Since DVD is already compressed, if you plan on doing any editing later, you will be recompressing this poorly compressed material.

I use Mini DV and then combine multiple camcorder footage to one seemless stream. If I did this with a compressed stream from a DVD it would look horrible. I have encoded my DV files with Sony Vegas and Nero Vision Express and have NEVER experienced any Sync issues.

DVD camcorders are probably the simplest to play back your material, but MiniDV wins if you want any editing. Only downside is hard drive space, and compression time - but the quality is worth it.

[svcdmaker]

While there are many benefits and conveniences to having a camcorder that records in a digital format, the weakest link in the chain has to be the optics. If you have poor optics then it does not matter if it records DV or how you compress it to a final Mpeg2 for authoring, it will look like a low end consumer camcorder.

If a low end is good enough for you, you may want to save a little money and skip DV entirely. You will still need someway to get it onto your machine if you want to edit and author as DVD. I would think that to break that barrier you are looking in excess of $800.

Reviews sites are good but the best way to know is to have the store hook it up and look at it on a TV with at least a 27" screen. On the 2" LCD camera screens or a 6 " TV just about everything will look good.

Depending on what you are doing you may also want to look for a camera with an external mic jack.

Karl

[GimmeTorq]

WOW!! Lots of good info... Trying to answer some questions and posting some new ones...

The main use of this camcorder will be home videos. I guess I care more about quality this time around, but not necessary professional quality. Not much video quality in VHS-C and we've been using this format for more than 9 years... :oops:

Currently considering this one: http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=DCRHC21&Dept=cameras&CategoryName=dcc_DICamcorders_MiniDVHandycamCamcor ders

Right now I have to capture analog video real-time to convert to mpeg using WinDVD Creator. Would I have to do the same with MiniDV? I see these camcorders are equipped with Firewire, so I hope they can do it in a different way...

Thanks!!

[timdg]

Firewire captures in real time. Expect to use 10-13 GB for an hour of footage...

Awesome camcorder - I have a similar model...

[GimmeTorq]

OK, thanks!! Wow, 10 GB per hr. I guess once the DVD is created, I don't have to keep the raw video files around anymore. And I just installed a second 120 GB harddrive which should help. Thanks all for your inputs!

[wwjd]

For converting DV to compliant mpeg2 I recommend CCE Basic. It
costs $58 and does a great job of converting avi to mpeg. It is also one
of if not the fastest avi to mpeg converters around. Very simple GUI and
good customer support.

Videoredo seems to really like the mpeg files created with CCE Basic.
If do try CCE Basic be sure that it is the Basic version and not SP. SP is
much more expensive and is more than most people will ever need.

For Authoring I recommend TMPGEnc DVD Author, very fast and bullit
proof.

[Anole]

If a low end is good enough for you, you may want to save a little money and skip DV entirely. You will still need someway to get it onto your machine if you want to edit and author as DVD. I would think that to break that barrier you are looking in excess of $800.


I know decent DV camcorders used to go for $600-800, but what is it they have on the market now for $400?

If I'm not mistaken, all you need is a firewire or USB 2 cable (and a whole lot of computer) and you're good to go.

The current Radio Shack flyer lists:
..Sony DCR-DVD92 digital camcorder for $600
.... oh, sorry, that's a DVD camcorder :(
..Sony DCR-HC21 MiniDV handycam for $400
..Samsung SC-D353 MiniDV Camcorder for $300

I haven't been closely shopping camcorders, so maybe I'm way off base , but why would anyone buy an analog camera then invest in digitizing equipment?

PS: I wouldn't buy anything from Sony that used a proprietary format. Those guys are as predatory about owning the market as Microsoft is.!

[wwjd]

One main reason to go Digital is resolution. Analog, including Hi 8 tops
out around 400 lines of resolution. Most DV cameras are 520 to 540
lines of resolution.

I would stay away from the DVD camcorders and stick with either miniDV
or Digital 8. DVD camcorders compress the video data in order to write
it to the DVD and most camcorders do not do a good job of this. MiniDV
and Digital 8 also do some compression but much less.

[GimmeTorq]

wife did not like the Sony... She hated the touch screen. She was afraid she was eventually going to break it with her long fingernails... So we ended up with a Panasonic http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/vModelDetail?displayTab=O&storeId=15001&catalogId=13401&itemId=88740&catGroupId=25002&modelNo=PV-GS31&surfModel=PV-GS31&cacheProgram=11002&cachePartner=7000000000000005702

It's pretty nice. She likes the Panasonic's "joystick" much better that the Sony's touchscreen. Bought me a Adaptec FireConnect 4300 kit (firewire card, cable and software) and we're ready to go.
Now I have Roxio Capture, Sonic MyDVD and Intervideo WinDVD Creator all installed and ready for testing to see which one results more convenient and with higher quality mpegs out of the DV input...

BTW, any experiences with these above?

[Anole]

I suggested this to a friend who just got a new Panasonic DV camcorder:
http://www.winavi.com/en/video-capture/video-capture.htm
and he seemed to really like it.

Oh, and it's currently F R E E for the full version.

I use WinAVI, a low-cost media format converter from the same company, and have spoken highly of it on this forum.

[wwjd]

GimmeTorq,

I have used MySonic DVD and I have tried WinDVD, neither in my opinion is very good. They are buggy, not very good at converting avi to mpeg and are slow when it comes to authoring.

My suggestion is that you visit videohelp.com, it is an excellent site for finding out what others think about software apps, capture cards and just about anything video related.

I have suggested TDA and CCE but if you prefer an all in one software app then I suggest Ulead Videostudio 8 or 9, especially since you will be handling DV avi. VS8 is fairly stable, has a very good user interface, is fast, does a decent job of converting DV avi to mpeg. I do not recommend it for cutting and trimming mpeg files but for DV avi it works quite well. Give the trial version a spin.

For getting your DV avi to your hard drive via fire wire I suggest a freeware software called WinDV. WinDV just gets the DV avi to your hard drive, very straight forward and bullit proof. With some other apps you can easily mistakenly re-encode the DV avi before it gets onto the hard drive and that is something you definitely do not want to do.

[GimmeTorq]

Thanks for the great advice!!! I will be checking them soon.