Support for tivo tystreams

[AlphaWolf]

Hey, I just discovered this editor recently, so far it looks like it does an excellent job with pretty much any mpeg converted stream I throw at it.

Seeing as you already are supporting the dishpvr streams, I am wondering if you guys will consider supporting tivo tystreams as well, both from directv tivos (satellite receiver integrated) and standalone tivos. As you probably know by now, tivo tystreams are mpeg-2 transport streams (although I have been told they more resemble program streams) packaged in a somewhat proprietary format.

I know your project is commercial and that you probably want to go wherever the money is, but I am not a market expert, so with that in mind I am not quite sure what to say about the commercial market for tivo owners. However I can tell you that there is a very good sized tivo community called deal database with many people interested in video extraction and editing. You can find it here.

Now there currently are a few freeware tystream conversion tools. One called tystudio is open source and it does a good job of processing the streams into good standard mpeg but it hasn't seen any updates in a while. Another called tytool is closed source, sees occasional updates, and has many features but it can't always convert tystreams to proper mpeg-2, and the author hasn't shown any interest in correcting these issues either, thus you can't use any of the streams it creates in any other editor without encountering severe problems (except videoredo of course, yours seems to do a good job of fixing the mpeg errors that tytool produces, although it does an even better job with the tystudio processed streams as I mentioned here.)

Over the last few days I have been giving your software quite a bit of praise (both here and here) as it seems to work quite well with tystudio processed streams and a few people seem rather interested. Based on what I have seen so far, you can probably do a much better job with the raw unprocessed tystreams than all of the freeware editors currently do, and seeing how you make frequent updates it would probably generate a lot of interest in the deal database community.

I know you already have a lot on your hands with some other features you already mentioned you are going to add, but if it isn't too far out of your way I would like you to take this into consideration. I have a few sample streams I can send you if you are interested.

[Anonymous]

I second AlphaWolf's request for consideration of Tivo support. The DealDatabase Tivo Extraction Forum was the one I mentioned in my email. I had planned to use one of the freeware demuxers for tivo files, then edit the output with VideoReDo, but more direct support of Tivo-derived transport streams (or tystreams) would be even better.

[DanR]

I am an avid Tivo user, we have two standalone units here (3 actually, but one has a very wierd software problem so its not being used), but must admit I rarely edit Tivo programs. If there's something we want to archive, we will use one of the digital capture cards we have, (Hauppauge, ATI, NVida). That being said, I have used Ty Studio on occasion without any problems.

Our support for DishPVR streams is similar to our Tivo support. A conversion program creates PS streams which we then edit. A big plus for the DishPVR users is our ability to handle 3:2 pulldown and correct sync which are issues with the Dish streams.

tystream conversion tools. One called tystudio is open source and it does a good job of processing the streams into good standard mpeg but it hasn't seen any updates in a while.

Are there any issues with tystudio? At least with respect to extracting streams and creating an MPEG PS?

We won't access the Tivo to extract the .ty streams like tystudio can unless we receive permission from Tivo which is unlikely. We will look at the possibility of supporting .ty streams once you've imported them to your PC, so long as there is no decryption involved.

[AlphaWolf]

Are there any issues with tystudio? At least with respect to extracting streams and creating an MPEG PS?

There are a few of them. Namely it's support for the series 2 streams is mostly broken, and although I haven't seen it myself, many people report the occasional stream going out of sync with tystudio. There also is one little bug that hasn't really bothered me yet, but it seems to cut off the last few seconds of any tystream you run through it (which are usually credits or something, but still it probably shouldn't do that.) And lastly, tystudio does not support high definition tivo streams.

We will look at the possibility of supporting .ty streams once you've imported them to your PC, so long as there is no decryption involved.

That will work fine.

In fact to further that I think if it was really wanted, there are probably numerous ways that the freeware scene could go about creating a wrapper so that your software doesn't know much of the difference between whether the tystream is on a tivo itself or is on the local PC. The only problem here is if videoredo needs to do anything beyond reading the stream itself in real-time (e.g. creating key files or something the way that tystudio does before it can even open the stream.) Barring network speed there wont be any problem.

Also decryption will never be an issue.

EDIT: Something else I almost forgot about, and this would help your entire userbase abroad rather than just tivo owners. Back in the day, I remember Olaf_SC talking about being able to upscale video from 480x480 to 720x480 in the compressed space, or without re-encoding with a quick and lossless method, and he was talking about adding this to tystudio, but unfortunately nobody has heard from him in well over a year. Perhapse you might be able to do that?

Combined with your gop resizing feature, this could make all tivo tystreams as well as SVCDs 100% compatible with DVD spec.

[rc3105]

We won't access the Tivo to extract the .ty streams like tystudio can unless we receive permission from Tivo which is unlikely.

I wrote a tivo-side ftp server that allows any standard client - including browsers - to retrieve shows. you could support direct tivo extraction merely by adding the ablility to access standard ftp servers

maybe not particularly high on anybody's wishlist, but it'd be usefull enough for non-tivo people to justify implementation (not to mention the same sort of ftpd is possible for dish, myth & other video collections and sources)


--
Riley

[DanR]

I wrote a tivo-side ftp server that allows any standard client - including browsers - to retrieve shows. you could support direct tivo extraction merely by adding the ablility to access standard ftp servers

Does your server convert the program content into standard MPEG2 PS?

[rc3105]

nope, been down that road & the tivo really doesn't have the horsepower. I was a tystudio contributor, the tivo port topped out at about 750K/sec doing ty->mpg so it didn't seem particularly usefull

everybody and their dog seems to want to invent new extraction protocols (tivo included) my public utils just move data from point a to point b & allow for restoring archived recordings

[DanR]

Do we need additional software on the Tivo, besides your FTP server to access the TY stream? Its been a couple of years since I loaded TYstudio on my standalone Tivo. Can't remember exactly what I did.

Maybe you can help me with my standalone Tivo problem. I have a Phillips Series 1Tivo, upgraded to TurboNet 10/100 after the modem died and 100 hours of disk space. The TurboNet works great, I can FTP and telnet to my hearts content. But, the Tivo will no longer access the guide data. Even if I do a test call, the test gets hung up while "hanging up". It says, setting clock, then "hanging up" but never goes any further. Can still access it via ethernet, but can't get guide data to load. So, I broke down and bought another Tivo, 40 hr, Series II. But, I'd love to get the orignal one working again. Any ideas?

[rc3105]

mfs_ftp requires a few support files that're included in the download, but not any other utilities to be running

with s2 versions of the support binaries mfs_ftp works on everything from the original sa2 through the hdtivo & pioneer/humax dvd burner combo units

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couple of ways to get the s1 goin, listed from easiest to hardest

change the daily call from phoneline to ethernet & route it through your home network - use dialing prefix ",#401"

connect an external modem to the serial port - use dialing prefix ",#396"

run a serial cable from tivo -> pc & configure it as a serial ppp server - use dialing prefix ",#296" (big pain)

generate your own guide data - not particularly difficult, but gotta be done on a weekly basis

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here's a bit of a pie-in-the-sky feature request

lot of people are interested in putting mpg from other sources into their tivo. a "convert-to-ty" feature would sell a LOT of copies of VideoReDo

*converting mpg/vob/ts into tivo compliant ty isn't hard, unfortunatly everybody wants support and nobody wants to pay for it - allready done my good deed for the millenium :P

[DanR]

couple of ways to get the s1 goin, listed from easiest to hardest

change the daily call from phoneline to ethernet & route it through your home network - use dialing prefix ",#401"

Its already configured as ,#401. Worked for just over a year without problem. Then we had a power failure here and it never worked again :( Thought it would be the TurboNet card, but that's working just fine, everything else about the Tivo box is working OK as well. Couldn't get any help on any of the Tivo forums.

lot of people are interested in putting mpg from other sources into their tivo. a "convert-to-ty" feature would sell a LOT of copies of VideoReDo

Is it hard to stuff the info back into the MFS? Why not simply purchase the Home Media option and play your files stored elsewhere on your home network?