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Robbi
January 30th, 2006, 06:28 PM
Using Frame Accurate and Scene Mode editing with b446.

Have five scenes on the timeline, use preview to make sure of continuity. Section two I edit the start by +2seconds.

Then i can play scene two correctly even clicking lmb>Start of selected scene
takes it back to my new edit of +2seconds.

Bug ?
Both the scene list and the preview do not update, they stay to how it was when i first set the mark-in on scene two. This makes previewing impossible. I wait on a fix or explanation how to correct this action, before i can continue editing.

Robbi
February 1st, 2006, 01:15 AM
Was this a bug or is there a way to overcome this problem?

phd
February 1st, 2006, 07:38 AM
Once you start editing in preview mode, it will automatically switch back to edit mode.

Robbi
February 1st, 2006, 04:40 PM
Yes but that is not the answer to the question i asked above.

I repeat the above again, to try and make it clearer for you to understand.

#I have Five edit scenes on the timeline.

#I attemp to change scene two Mark-In by Two Seconds Forward.

# The problem as follows

Both the scene list and the preview do not update for the new mark-in point. This now means i cannot preview the film for continuity, making the preview feature useless.

phd
February 1st, 2006, 08:22 PM
I am using V446.

I double-click on scene 2 and readjust the beginning 2 seconds forward by pressing the Sel.Start button.

I press the Add Selection button. I get a dialog box asking me to replace the selection and I select replace.

The scene list is updated.

Robbi
February 2nd, 2006, 11:48 PM
Thank you pat this does work the way you suggested.

But now i'm lost because if i edit any Mark-Out on any scene. That same dialog box instantly pops up without having to select the Add selection button. This is where i was where i got lost and confused as above previously.

It would be very helpful not to have the need for clicking the Add Selection Button, for Mark-In changes. As is the way now when using Mark-Out for Mark-Out changes.

phd
February 3rd, 2006, 12:38 AM
If I modify the end, I still have to click the Add Selection button.

Robbi
February 3rd, 2006, 05:13 PM
Pat when i modify any scene ends i get an immeadiate pop-up requester on clicking Mark-Out. Which is same pop-up requester when i select Add Selection Button for the Mark-In edits.

It would be a whole lot easier if the Mark-In would behave, like the Mark-Out on any scene change edit. Without the need of having to click the Add Selection Button each time.

DanR
February 3rd, 2006, 06:23 PM
If you have "One-Click" selection enabled (which you will if the buttons are labeled mark-in / out and not Sel-in/out), then clicking on Mark-Out will automatically trigger the "Add Selection Button". If you don't like this behavior, simply disable the "One-Click" checkbox on the Tools>Options>General screen.

Robbi
February 4th, 2006, 09:40 AM
Dan i do like this behaviour very much indeed. I also would like the Mark-In to behave exactly the same, as the Mark-Out does it.

DanR
February 4th, 2006, 11:10 AM
Dan i do like this behaviour very much indeed. I also would like the Mark-In to behave exactly the same, as the Mark-Out does it.I'm not quite sure how that would work. If each time out clicked on Mark-in it added a cut/selection to the cut list you wouldn't have an opportunity to set the mark-out point.

We are open to suggestion on this.

JMH
February 4th, 2006, 12:36 PM
In scene mode if you are within an existing selection and press F4 you immediately get a "replace" dialog offering to change the end point. But when you press F3 the start marker is placed at the current location, but the start of scene remains as before, and you have to also press "add selection" before the "replace" dialog appears. I have never understood this asymmetry in the handling of the end and start of a scene, and why F3 for the start of scene cannot immediately trigger the "replace" dialog as F4 does for the end of scene.

phd
February 4th, 2006, 06:13 PM
In spite of the name non-linear editor, generally people will edit in a linear fashion. Marking the beginning of a cut first, then the end.

JMH
February 4th, 2006, 06:25 PM
For the matter at hand, changing a selection already made, that is irrelevant. Why should amending the end position be easier than amending the start position?

DanR
February 4th, 2006, 09:32 PM
If everytime you moved the start position a cut or scene was added to the cut list, it would be extremely easy to overwrite an existing cut.

Robbi
February 4th, 2006, 09:38 PM
Dan i don't know how you would achieve this, but you did it correct when you implemented the Mark-Out.

I edit on the time line, use preview to check the edits are correct and adjust as and when when needed. I'm sure you can fix the Mark-In to match how the Mark-Out is implemented at the moment.

DanR
February 5th, 2006, 08:18 AM
I'm certainly open to specific suggestions on this.

JMH
February 5th, 2006, 10:39 AM
If everytime you moved the start position a cut or scene was added to the cut list, it would be extremely easy to overwrite an existing cut.

I'm not sure whether by "move the start position" you mean simply move the cursor, or when you then press F3, but it is the latter I am concerned with.

When you press F4 for end of selection within an existing selection you automatically get the "replace" dialog that allows you to choose what result you want. To get the same dialog when pressing F3 for the start of selection you must select "add selection".

I don't see why F4 in these circumstances is regarded as OK to overwrite an existing cut but F3, were it to give the same dialog to allow the user to cancel the change, would be regarded as bad.

At the moment the GUI seems to break the doctrine of "minimum surprise", as the updating of start and end selections are handled differently for reasons that are not intuitive. Perhaps the behaviour makes sense to a user of cut mode, but not to a user of scene mode, like me.

Robbi
February 5th, 2006, 02:53 PM
JMH i will have to try and see what you are meaning in vrd, after all my recording sessions end later tonight. I think that you mean the same as me, but you prefer to use the F-keys instead of mouse control to do the same thing. BBL

Robbi
February 5th, 2006, 05:53 PM
JMH you are saying the same as i am saying but in a different wording.

Now we need to understand what Dan is trying to make of this. Which i have just re-read Dans comments above again. Dan i think is trying to say to us how can you use Mark-In twice without marking a Mark-Out possition.

Dan if that is what your saying, it's not what we are saying. We are saying something completely different.

It's like this.

We have already made all the Mark-In and Mark-Out points on the timeline. But for finer adjustment for continuity, we need to move the Mark-In and or the Mark-Out of any scene we select by some frames. To do this we select the scene to adjust it, then move a few frames either way and press Mark-In or Mark-Out depending on which end of the scene is been edited.

What is not correct is the way the Mark-In behaves. If you look at the way of the Mark-Out behaviour when editing the end of any scene, by some frames. Upon clicking Mark-Out button the Replace dialog requester will pop-up, withthe select the Replace option. Select choice and the new Mark-Out is set.

But not so for the Mark-In, it further requires you to then also click on the Add Selection button before the Replace dialog requester pop-up will appear.

We should not have to press the Add Selection button just to get the Replace dialog requester pop-up set set the new edited Mark-In possition. It should work as the Mark-Out while fine tune editing for continuity.

JMH
February 6th, 2006, 06:59 AM
JMH you are saying the same as i am saying but in a different wording. ....

Yes.


I think that you mean the same as me, but you prefer to use the F-keys instead of mouse control to do the same thing.

I prefer to use the F3 and F4 keys at that point only because I have just been using the keyboard to position the cursor, so I go for another key than reach for the mouse.

Robbi
February 12th, 2006, 06:55 AM
Dan is it possible you can fix this problem above.?

DanR
February 15th, 2006, 08:33 AM
We don't consider this to be a problem. If you don't like the way Mark-in behaves (because its asymetric), then disable "one-click" on the Tools>Options>General page. Then mark-in/out behave identically, but you'll always need that extra mouse-click.

The problem with what you're asking is that setting a cut whenever mark-in is checked will cause more UI issues.

Robbi
February 15th, 2006, 05:10 PM
We don't consider this to be a problem. If you don't like the way Mark-in behaves (because its asymetric), then disable "one-click" on the Tools>Options>General page. Then mark-in/out behave identically, but you'll always need that extra mouse-click.

The problem with what you're asking is that setting a cut whenever mark-in is checked will cause more UI issues.
Will cause problems with the UI is not good news. Better to leave it until such a time that..

1. The gui is made to seperate into different windows, that are user re-sizeable, manouverable and can remember the last used windows UI possitions.

2. Or leave it until such a time you decide to redesign the UI totaly.

I prefer number one as it would be easier to change, add features and future upgrade without any problems that do make UI issues.