Dvd.mpg>x264.mp4... EDIT...PROBLEM IS "dvd_"3/2Pulldown".mpgs.

jmc

Active member
EDIT...3/2 pull down mpg has the video quality problems. NON pull down.mpg has no video quality problems.

My "good" heavy duty x264 profile now is fuzzy and jagged. Text on screen has dots/stuff around the font edges.
(VRD5-771 is fine, imported the 771 "fine" profile into VRD6-819 and fuzzy/jagged/"spotty text").
(I have reinstalled)

So Far...
Odd bits, Setting Ref frames to 5 use to produce 5. Now ONLY 4 with double pass. Single pass does do 5 Ref Frames.
Setting Advanced Ref Frames number does nothing...5 or 8 comes out always 4 now.(Double Pass).

Without Ref Frames set, UltraSlow x264 Preset does 16 Ref Frames. Think I've read here that 16 can cause problems.(?)

Still working on rebuilding profile. But the Ref Frames setting use to work and now no longer works!...no idea...W10 did do the June updates when I let it last week or two ago.
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EDIT...
Ok, rebuilt Profile and found that if "Set Deinterlacing Smart" the fringe is bad around letters. Still jagged edges and fuzzy video.AND I have been using "Deinterlace Smart" for YEARS!

AUTO and WEAVE Deinterlace were good with the font letters. BOB and SMART were terrible!
But then VRD5-771 was much better in video quality all the way around!

EDIT...Ok I did another PullDown file and a NON PullDown File. VRD6-819 does not handle PullDown.mpgs well at ALL.
VRD5-771 vs VRD6-819a. 819 loses badly. A nonPullDown.mpg and 819 is good.
 
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jmc

Active member
More testing...

It seems to be a VRD6-819a deinterlacing problem with 3/2 Pull Down dvd.mpgs

(Previously I had put together title,movement and still video segments.
4 seconds for quick processing, Bad idea not good quality x264.mp4 output)

20 seconds I frame to I frame is much better video quality after x264 compression BUT...

1. AUTO Deinterlace does NOT deinterlace. Movement combing.

2. BOB -Bad font edges, Poorer video

3. WEAVE -Good font edges, Video better but movement has "shadow/ghost" effects in a frame.

4. SMART -Bad font edges, Poorer video.

None of these are working as they use to...No idea what has happened here (?)

Deinterlace the 20 second dvd.mpg in TMPGEnc (inverse pull down) and VRD6 x264 output is fine with the new "deinterlaced" dvd.mpg file.

So somehow VRD6-819a deinterlacing now has a real problem.
I've use Smart Deinterlace for years but now it is BAD.

----

EDIT...Just tested two Non_Pull_Down dvd.mpg files and VRD6-819a had NO apparent problems with them.
Tested with each of the Deinterlace options.


The NTSC dvd.mpg file would show clear combing in a frame by frame examination.

The PAL dvd.mpg never showed any combing effects in any program I tried. But every program stated "interlaced_Topfield". Would love to know what is going on there.
 
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musicvid

Member
Unless your DVD is old, chances are it is soft pulldown, which is not actually interlaced.
The prevalant form of soft pulldown from film source is 23.976p flagged as 29.97i, which the player reads to keep it within spec.
In this case, the appropriate frame rate is 23.976p, as is the source, and no pulldown is desireable or needed.
 

jmc

Active member
Unless your DVD is old, chances are it is soft pulldown, which is not actually interlaced.
The prevalant form of soft pulldown from film source is 23.976p flagged as 29.97i, which the player reads to keep it within spec.
In this case, the appropriate frame rate is 23.976p, as is the source, and no pulldown is desireable or needed.
"Soft Pulldown", Hmm, new to me, will have to look that up...No interlacing YAY!

I'm assuming that this refers to why I could not find any interlace combing effects in the PAL.mpg file.
The NTSC.mpg was old, The PAL.mpg is this year.
Thankfully, if I don't see combing I don't deinterlace. Don't care what the programs say, just what my eyes do.

Gets tricky, Sometimes "auto deinterlace" or "deinterlace as needed" works.
But it sometimes won't. Always have to check a few frames of the preview to make sure before the encode.
"Smart" has always (before now) worked great. Most of my work is with PAL files thankfully.

I liked the old VRD 3/2 pulldown effect of not showing a P,B or I in the Thumbnail corner. It was obvious.
Now I have to count the frame numbers at the bottom. 0,1,2,3,,,5,6,7,8,,,10 etc.

An odd note... the "Big Bang Theory" on tv shows no interlacing.
BUT the COMMERCIAL for that show will show interlacing in the contained video segment on the same tv.
Like the commercial was recorded on a system that did not do deinterlacing at all.

Thanks,
jmc
 
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Dan203

Senior Developer
Staff member
The "auto" deinterlace option in VRD is a little misleading. It has some internal triggers, like resizing, that simply switch between no deinterlace and BOB. Really, if you want a smooth progressive picture, you should be using "smart" instead.
 

jmc

Active member
The "auto" deinterlace option in VRD is a little misleading. It has some internal triggers, like resizing, that simply switch between no deinterlace and BOB. Really, if you want a smooth progressive picture, you should be using "smart" instead.
SMART with 3:2 pulldown dvd.mpg is really, really bad now...

VRD deinterlace setting with 3:2 pulldown dvd.mpg...
1. BOB -Bad font edges, bad video quality.

2. WEAVE -Good font edges, Video better but movement has "shadow/ghost" effects in a frame.

3. SMART -Bad font edges, bad video quality.

Used SMART for years! But now only good with NON_3:2_ pulldown dvd.mpgs.

None of these are working as they use to. There was an OLD problem with deinterlacing 3:2 pulldown dvd.mpgs but y'all fixed it with somekind of internal double processing recently and all was good.
Don't know what has happened now or when it went bad.
It use to handle 3:2 pulldown dvd.mpg deinterlacing...Hmm, maybe the x64 VRD is not using that double process routine?

thanks,
jmc
 
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musicvid

Member
The implied question in my first reply was, "How old are your DVDs?"
Another good question is, "Are they movies or old TV shows?"
 

Dan203

Senior Developer
Staff member
SMART with 3:2 pulldown dvd.mpg is really, really bad now...

VRD deinterlace setting with 3:2 pulldown dvd.mpg...
1. BOB -Bad font edges, bad video quality.

2. WEAVE -Good font edges, Video better but movement has "shadow/ghost" effects in a frame.

3. SMART -Bad font edges, bad video quality.

Used SMART for years! But now only good with NON_3:2_ pulldown dvd.mpgs.

None of these are working as they use to. There was an OLD problem with deinterlacing 3:2 pulldown dvd.mpgs but y'all fixed it with somekind of internal double processing recently and all was good.
Don't know what has happened now or when it went bad.
It use to handle 3:2 pulldown dvd.mpg deinterlacing...Hmm, maybe the x64 VRD is not using that double process routine?

thanks,
jmc
The deinterlacer hasn't changed in VRD in YEARS. Not since early in the v5 development cycle. So not sure where this reference to old vs new deinterlacer is coming from. Maybe one of your other settings is causing an issue.
 

jmc

Active member
The deinterlacer hasn't changed in VRD in YEARS. Not since early in the v5 development cycle. So not sure where this reference to old vs new deinterlacer is coming from. Maybe one of your other settings is causing an issue.
Ok, found the thread from April/May 2019...
Danr did the work on the dvd.mpg PullDown deinterlace problem and fixed it in VRDTVS-6-4-87-794a.

I'll email him at VRD support about the new dvd.mpg 3:2 pulldown problem...Fingers Crossed.

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This problem was that VRD could not deinterlace 3:2 pulldown dvd.mpgs in any way...now fixed.
""https://videoredo.net/msgBoard/index.php?threads/2-3-pull-down-and-deinterlace-x264-still-nope-and-sadly-hevc-is-also-nope.36810/#post-128688""

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Danr said:
I think we have a solution, but would like for you to test something first.
1. Take your mpeg2 source file and save it as an H.264 file but with NO deinterlacing.
2. Then take that interlaced file and convert it to H.264 progressive.

Let me know what you think of the output. If that looks for to you, then we can fix up the deinterlacer to accomplish that in one step.
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Danr said:
Thanks for doing the test, we will address the issue so it's all automatic and occurs in one transcode step.
 
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Dan203

Senior Developer
Staff member
I talked to DanR this morning and he says there is an issue with the encoder and 3:2 pull down, not the deinterlacer, which is why I was confused. He said it'll be fixed in the next beta.
 

jmc

Active member
I talked to DanR this morning and he says there is an issue with the encoder and 3:2 pull down, not the deinterlacer, which is why I was confused. He said it'll be fixed in the next beta.
Fantastic, Great to hear!

Thanks,
jmc
 
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