Lost Video

wtherrell

New member
I did a search for no video and lost video on the forum and came up empty.
I am a VideoReDo newbie. Last night converted a THD episode of Heroes to mpg. I caught on to using VideoReDo OK (So I thought). I then transferred the file from "My Tivo Recordings" to one of my S2 Tivos. It downloaded OK and appeared in the NPL. However, when I play it I get audio and captions just fine but absolutely no video at all. So what did I do or not do that would have caused this?
 

Dan203

Senior Developer
Staff member
It came from a TiVoHD, was it HD? If so you need to use TiVo Desktop Plus or pyTiVo to transfer it to a S2 because the S2 is not capable of playing HD video. It is odd that the TiVo allowed you to transfer the video at all, but it is TiVo Desktops responsibility to check the video and see if it's compatible so something must have glitched.

Dan
 

wtherrell

New member
It came from a TiVoHD, was it HD? If so you need to use TiVo Desktop Plus or pyTiVo to transfer it to a S2 because the S2 is not capable of playing HD video. It is odd that the TiVo allowed you to transfer the video at all, but it is TiVo Desktops responsibility to check the video and see if it's compatible so something must have glitched.

Dan
Thanks for the reply. It was HD. I used Tivo Desktop Plus to transfer. The audio and captions were there, but a black screen. I later tried the same file through pyTivo. This time I had video and audio but no closed captions.
Just don't know what to do at this point. I need the captions.
 

Dan203

Senior Developer
Staff member
The captions are part of the video stream, so they should be there. Maybe you should try rebooting your TiVo. (pull the plug for a minute)

Dan
 

wtherrell

New member
The captions are part of the video stream, so they should be there. Maybe you should try rebooting your TiVo. (pull the plug for a minute)

Dan
Which one? Both? Transfers from another S2 to the S2 in question has captions OK with Tivo Desktop Plus, with pytivo and with MRV. All just SD source though so I did not run them through VDR. The pytivo metadata said no conversion necessary on the SD source files. I'm just trying to understand where the captions are being lost.
And again, thank you for your patience and help.

In looking again at the info on the problem: Captions, audio with TVD+ but no video. Video, audio, but no captions with Pytivo.
Looks like VDR is supplying everything to the share file and there are problems with both TVD+ and with Pytivo ??. But both those programs work fine with stuff that hasn't been recoded from HD to SD. Something that's throwing those two programs off.
 
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txporter

New member
I am trying to follow your posts, but it sounds like you are talking about more than 1 video in your transfers. In one it says the source file was HD, but in the latest it looks like it was SD??

At any rate, I think what is probably happening is this:
You recorded Heroes in HD on your TivoHD and downloaded to your computer.
When you uploaded the video to your Tivo S2 with TD+, it likely didn't transcode the video but pulled it in as-is. Series2 cannot display HD video, so you will see a black screen.
When you uploaded the video with pytivo, it is set up to recognize whether the video is SD or HD and also whether the destination Tivo can handle HD. If it cannot, it will transcode the video to SD in which case you will lose the captions.

You should be able to determine if the video is SD or HD by looking at the file size on the tivo as well as on your computer (Info when looking at the video file in the NPL).

Jason

P.S. There are ways to re-encode your HD video file to SD resolutions and re-insert the captions, but I haven't tried it with VideoRedo (actually at all, but whatever...) so I do not know if it is possible in VRD.
 

wtherrell

New member
Hmm. Let me try to explain again. I pulled the 1 hour HD file from THD into TivoDesktop plus. From there I loaded it into VRD. Cut the commercials and clicked create DVD after selecting options for 4:3 letterbox and 720 x 480 output. When the encoding was complete an hour and 48 minutes later I saved the output file as mpg into the Tivo Desktop (My Tivo Recordings file). Then when I pulled this output file from the PC to the S2 it had no video, just audio and captions. So I then moved this output file to the pytivo share and downloaded to S2 from there. I had letterboxed video, audio but no captions. Apparently the VideoRedo did not downconvert since I noticed if I pressed Tivo info button the pytivo data said source file was 1920 x 1080 or some such. I had selected 720 x 480 as the output resolution. But if I load the output file back into VRD it still says it is still 1920 x 1080. I just can't seem to get VRD to downconvert properly. I must be doing something wrong but don't know what.
 

txporter

New member
Ok, I am following now. I don't have VideoRedo TVSuite, so I do not have an output to DVD option. I believe that I saw a post from Dan or Phil a few weeks ago about the proper way to resize HD for DVD but am unable to find it with a quick search. Hopefully one of them will see this and post the correct method.

Jason
 

phd

Super Moderator
Resizing from HD to SD using VideoReDo would involve using TVSuite and authoring to a DVD folder.
 

txporter

New member
It looks like wtherrell did that since it took VRD nearly 2 hrs to process the file (sounds like re-encoding time).

wtherrell- When you said you saved the resulting file to the Tivo folder, did you just go to save as in VRD and save the file to the folder, or did you open the new VOBs that were written during the 2hr process and save THOSE files to the mpg? If you originally opened the file (1080i) and then created the DVD folder (480i/p) which took 1hr 48mins, but didn't close the 1080i and re-open the new files, you were just saving the original file to a new directory.

That would be my next guess.

Jason
 

wtherrell

New member
It looks like wtherrell did that since it took VRD nearly 2 hrs to process the file (sounds like re-encoding time).

wtherrell- When you said you saved the resulting file to the Tivo folder, did you just go to save as in VRD and save the file to the folder[ Yes], or did you open the new VOBs that were written during the 2hr process and save THOSE files to the mpg?[Where would those files be? I found a .dvd folder with an audio LS and a video LS file. Am I supposed to do something with those files? If so, what? If you originally opened the file (1080i) and then created the DVD folder (480i/p) which took 1hr 48mins, but didn't close the 1080i and re-open the new files, you were just saving the original file to a new directory.

That would be my next guess.


Jason
Once again, thank you guys for your help and patience.
 

wtherrell

New member
OK from VRD file menu, instead of open video, I open Video title. I find the VSLT file and open it into VRD. This looks like it has the proper 720 x 480 size. Then I ran ad-detective and did "save as" to the "My Tivo Recordings" file. Then when I open Tivo Desktop plus the file is there. I then requested the download from my S2 NPL. After download, This time, instead of black screen, I get pretty good video (a little jerking here and there but not bad), audio that seems to emphasize dialog better than the original (guess all the surround sound crap got cut out?) but no captions this time. I saved the output file this time as a .mpg. Maybe if I save as a .Tivo file it might preserve the captions? I'll try that next.

Edit: Well when I saved it as a .Tivo file into "My Tivo Recordings" it would not download to the S2. Error was "format incompatible with this DVR".
I then saved the .Tivo file to PyTivo. The transfer to S2 aborted with an unspecified Transfer Error. What is this? Tivo Desktop plus and PyTivo don't like .Tivo files?
 
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txporter

New member
Captions can be present in .mpg files (.tivo are really just MPEG2 video in a different wrapper). This is my guess (I don't know exactly how VRD does its re-encodes) but I believe the reason that you lose your captions is because you need to re-encode to get from 1920x1080 to 720x480. When you do normal commercial edits and saves (i.e. keeping the same resolution), VRD simply removes the pieces that you have asked it to and does a direct copy of the portions that you have left (with small re-encodes right at the cut boundaries). The direct copy leaves the captions intact. It sounds like the re-encode does not keep the captions. Phil or one of the Dans should be able to confirm/deny this and provide instructions if it is possible to keep them.

It IS possible to do what you want with other tools but they may not be quite as straightforward as VRD. Programs like T2SAMI or ccExtractor can be used to rip the captions from the tivo video before it is converted (I think it might need to be in mpg form) and I think both can be used to re-insert the captions after conversion. I haven't used T2SAMI at all and have only used ccExtractor to rip CC for use in XVID4PSP. If you are willing to do some work, you might be able to find a solution with one of those pieces of software though.

Jason
 

wtherrell

New member
(Also see my edit of my above post.) Yes, but when I changed from 1920 x 1080 to 720 x 480 for the .dvd create I checked the box that said include closed captions. So it seems that this VRD conversion keeps the captions. So maybe the save to .mpg takes out the captions? But then I wonder why did I get a semi-successful file with just audio and captions? Bewildering.
 

wtherrell

New member
Still no Closed Captions.

OK, I followed the directions found in that thread and the captions show up in the VLST file while I am editing it. However, no captions when I save the VLST edit as .mpg in the "My Tivo Recordings" file version or in the Pytivo shares version.
 

phd

Super Moderator
Try to trim and copy a 30-50MB segment of the VOB file. Tools>Trim and Copy Source File

Load the trim and copy segment into VideoReDo. Can you see the closed captions?

If so, save that T&C segment as an MPEG file. Do the captions still appear to be there when you load the MPG into VideoRedo?
 
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