Newbie Trying to Join Files Needs Help

[cwnelson]

Hi,

Been using VideoReDo for years now but always for editing, not usually for reencoding. I am having trouble matching one small file to a larger file I want to combine it with so that I can avoid a major recode. So for instance, I might have a large file that is an .mpg or .ts file (over two hours long), and a file from 2-15 minutes long (usually .mp4) that I want to attach to it. I use MediaInfo to match the files in as many ways as possible, using the profile options. This should mean that I only have to do one major recode for the small file, which I can do in a matter of minutes. But sometimes (not always), I try to join the two "matching" files and VideoReDo wants to do a major recode that I have to do overnight or that will take several hours. Often I have two files that have different resolutions, but to be honest I don't know if this is the problem. Usually I try to make the smaller file's Max Resolution match the resolution of the larger file, but it doesn't appear I am actually changing the resolution of the file. Do I have to use something like Handbrake to change the shorter file? Here is just one example of two files I am trying to combine. This example shows the shorter file after I converted it (which took less than a minute with VRD). Thanks!

FILE 1:
Format : MPEG-TS
File size : 130 MiB
Duration : 1 min 9 s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 15.7 Mb/s

Video
ID : 513 (0x201)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : High@High 1440
Format settings : BVOP
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, Matrix : Default
Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=15
Codec ID : 2
Duration : 1 min 9 s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 14.5 Mb/s
Maximum bit rate : 19.2 Mb/s
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.525
Time code of first frame : 00:00:00;00
Time code source : Group of pictures header
GOP, Open/Closed : Open
GOP, Open/Closed of first frame : Closed
Stream size : 121 MiB (92%)
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

Audio
ID : 514 (0x202)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Commercial name : Dolby Digital
Codec ID : 129
Duration : 1 min 9 s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 384 kb/s
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel layout : L R C LFE Ls Rs
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 3.19 MiB (2%)
Language : English
Service kind : Complete Main

FILE 2:
Format : MPEG-TS
File size : 15.7 GiB
Duration : 2 h 36 min
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 14.3 Mb/s
Movie name : 17BG110

Video
ID : 1011 (0x3F3)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@High
Format settings : CustomMatrix / BVOP
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, Matrix : Custom
Format settings, GOP : Variable
Format settings, picture structure : Frame
Codec ID : 2
Duration : 2 h 36 min
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 13.2 Mb/s
Maximum bit rate : 80.0 Mb/s
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Top Field First
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.213
Time code of first frame : 00:00:00;00
Time code source : Group of pictures header
GOP, Open/Closed : Open
GOP, Open/Closed of first frame : Closed
Stream size : 14.5 GiB (92%)
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

Audio
ID : 1012 (0x3F4)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Commercial name : Dolby Digital
Codec ID : 129
Duration : 2 h 36 min
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 384 kb/s
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel layout : L R C LFE Ls Rs
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
Compression mode : Lossy
Delay relative to video : 1 ms
Stream size : 431 MiB (3%)
Language : English
Service kind : Complete Main

Text #1
ID : 1011 (0x3F3)-CC1
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : EIA-608
Muxing mode : A/53 / DTVCC Transport
Muxing mode, more info : Muxed in Video #1
Duration : 2 h 36 min
Bit rate mode : Constant
Stream size : 0.00 Byte (0%)
CaptionServiceName : CC1

Text #2
ID : 1011 (0x3F3)-1
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : EIA-708
Muxing mode : A/53 / DTVCC Transport
Muxing mode, more info : Muxed in Video #1
Duration : 2 h 36 min
Bit rate mode : Constant
Stream size : 0.00 Byte (0%)

Text #3
ID : 1011 (0x3F3)-2
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : EIA-708
Muxing mode : A/53 / DTVCC Transport
Muxing mode, more info : Muxed in Video #1
Duration : 2 h 36 min
Bit rate mode : Constant
Stream size : 0.00 Byte (0%)

 

[jmc]

You need to go into "Advanced" setting and change the short file settings
to match the long file setting...

VRD GOP settings seems to only take numbers.

There is also the "Joiner". It can change file segment that it is "joining".
(Have very little experience here tho)

Also you sometimes have to select "force recode" to change a file.
(like changing a h264.mp4 file)

-----------------------------------------------short file
Format profile : High@High 1440
Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=15

Maximum bit rate : 19.2 Mb/s
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 720 pixels

Scan type : Progressive


-------------------------------------Long file
Format profile : Main@High
Format settings, GOP : Variable

Maximum bit rate : 80.0 Mb/s
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels

Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Top Field First

 

[cwnelson]

Thank you. I have been using the joiner but it tells me it needs a major recode. I used the advanced settings as you suggested and the result was a file I could combine with the longer file without a resulting recode. However the output of the conversion had a lot of underflow and then again when I combined the file. At first glance, when I combined the files, I got a file that was exactly what I wanted, but unfortunately, on two media players the sound dropped out any time I scrolled forward or back, or searched. On another, I got a file that is unplayable because the video judders and falls behind the audio and never catches up. A third player played it the ay it's supposed to be played, but one out of four isn't great.

So I think I'm on the right track, but I need to figure out if I have to change absolutely everything and what setting(s) caused this inconsistency. Both files uncombined play fine on all players.

This has been helpful so far, and at least I'm waiting a few minutes rather than several hours in between experiments.

 

[jmc]

"had a lot of underflow"

"Profile">"Show Advanced"...Right side, "Output Mux Rate">"TS mux rate"=Manual -increase this-Try 30000. (experiment)

 

[jmc]

At first glance, when I combined the files, I got a file that was exactly what I wanted, but unfortunately, on two media players the sound dropped out any time I scrolled forward or back, or searched. On another, I got a file that is unplayable because the video judders and falls behind the audio and never catches up. A third player played it the ay it's supposed to be played, but one out of four isn't great.

So I think I'm on the right track, but I need to figure out if I have to change absolutely everything and what setting(s) caused this inconsistency. Both files uncombined play fine on all players.

""https://videoredo.net/msgBoard/inde...s-with-a-two-file-join-why.37710/#post-134516""
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Dan203 said:

If you do it ahead of time and recode the one file to match the other then it'll work. No guarantees it'll play, but we don't check all the fine details, so if the macros match we allow both files to just pass through.
------------------------------------------------------

So looks like a tough problem as we (users) can not see all the (encoder flags?) that have been used and need matching for proper playing.

 

[Danr]

At first glance, when I combined the files, I got a file that was exactly what I wanted, but unfortunately, on two media players the sound dropped out any time I scrolled forward or back, or searched. On another, I got a file that is unplayable because the video judders and falls behind the audio and never catches up. A third player played it the ay it's supposed to be played, but one out of four isn't great.

You should only use combine if everything matches between the files, that includes not only codecs, but also PID (program ids). Tools>Show Program Info will give you the PIDs. If they don't match then you'll need to use the joiner as that will insure that all the PIDs in the output file match.

 

[tobyW]

Often I have two files that have different resolutions, but to be honest I don't know if this is the problem. Usually I try to make the smaller file's Max Resolution match the resolution of the larger file, but it doesn't appear I am actually changing the resolution of the file.
FILE 1:
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 720 pixels
FILE 2:
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels

Did you remember to set Output Mode: to "Force Recode" in the output profile for File 1?

 

[cwnelson]

Thanks to all for the replies. I think I have figured out the following:

1. Thanks to everyone's help I can more reliably match files on a joiner to avoid a major recode. As long as I force a recode and match as much as possible, I can match the smaller file to the larger file.

2. However, when I try to do this with the files I'm trying to work with, trying to match the smaller file to a larger .mpg program stream file produces degradation in the smaller file...lots of pixelation. So I can do what I want to do, but the resulting file is not good in the spots I added the smaller file. The way around this for me (unfortunately) is to force recode the larger file overnight to a different format and match the smaller files to that new file. After a few tries, the best results happened with an .mp4 (I tried both this and .ts). Hope this is informative.

 

[Danr]

If you're getting pixelation in your MPEG2 encodes, then increase the bit rate (use Force transcode and set the average bit rate). Different bit rates will not impact joining.