Transport-stream options

Winnewup

Member
Hello,
I made the first few steps with VRD6 and can't find an option that was present in VRD5:
Remove filler NALs
(there are some other options missing, but I never used them ;))

Remove Filler NALs.jpg

I use this option whenever I edit recordings from the TV (mostly ts/h.264/p50) and save them again as ts-stream (same as source). TS-stream for me is the container that is best played by my devices and loses no information (you never know about the future). But with filler NALs the size is much bigger than without (e.g. 2,5MB / 1,7MB - sometimes it needs more than twice the space; depends on the quality of program stream). Filler NALs are useless for home equipment and just need space on the hard disk.
I tried to copy an existing profile hoping there would be more options, but I couldn't find this one.
Is there a place where I can find it or maybe it was just forgotten?

Regards and thanks in advance
Frank
 
Last edited:

jmc

Active member
Seems you have to select the H.264 encoder before you see various options show up.
Not "match source".
 

Winnewup

Member
Hello jmc,
thanks for the hint. That was the cause. :cool:

I have another point with ts-streams that doesn't work optimal. If I play the original file (ts recorded with a dreambox) with VLC-player and jump to any point of the video, VLC starts almost immediately with the playback. If I jump in a video that has gone trough VRD6 (also the latest versions of VRD5), there is a delay of nearly 4 seconds until the playback starts again. The last picture freezes, the audio of the new point starts immediately and the video adds a few seconds later (up to 4 seconds).
Changing audio or an additional QSF or filler NALs don't change this behavior. I only made one cut at the beginning (I-frame) and one at the end (P-frame). Maybe the type of muxing or parameters in the stream causes this, because a simple QSF has the same result.
By the way, if I use mp4, the new file behaves like the original ts-file.

I remember that this hasn't been always like this, but I don't remember which version of VRD5 changed this.

Perhaps there is a chance to get this better to work. Or is there another option that changes the type of muxing and the parameters inside the stream I could try?

Regards
Frank
 

jmc

Active member
I record on my PC in .TS for "fail safe" recording but then convert to .MP4. (file shrinks a good bit)
I had lot of problems QSFing the .TS file and playback issues!

Once it was a .MP4 then a QSF was no problem.
Don't remember the awful details of QSFing the .TS file,
I just convert to MP4(audio sync 400ms and AC3 conversion) and it all works.

Of course using a external device to record can introduce any number of possible issues
as you usually don't have the level of control as on a PC.
 

Dan203

Senior Developer
Staff member
Hello jmc,
thanks for the hint. That was the cause. :cool:

I have another point with ts-streams that doesn't work optimal. If I play the original file (ts recorded with a dreambox) with VLC-player and jump to any point of the video, VLC starts almost immediately with the playback. If I jump in a video that has gone trough VRD6 (also the latest versions of VRD5), there is a delay of nearly 4 seconds until the playback starts again. The last picture freezes, the audio of the new point starts immediately and the video adds a few seconds later (up to 4 seconds).
Changing audio or an additional QSF or filler NALs don't change this behavior. I only made one cut at the beginning (I-frame) and one at the end (P-frame). Maybe the type of muxing or parameters in the stream causes this, because a simple QSF has the same result.
By the way, if I use mp4, the new file behaves like the original ts-file.

I remember that this hasn't been always like this, but I don't remember which version of VRD5 changed this.

Perhaps there is a chance to get this better to work. Or is there another option that changes the type of muxing and the parameters inside the stream I could try?

Regards
Frank
Best way to test what's causing this is to not make the cut. Just open the file and save without any cuts. Does the resulting file have the same issue? If not then it's the recoding at the cut point causing the problem. If it does still have the problem then it's the muxing. Let me know the result.
 

Winnewup

Member
Hallo Dan,
I tried several files (without and even with errors) and the result is always the same. Original files start playback after jumping in VLC (and also in Dreambox) very fast (max is 1 second delay) with audio and video.
If the file has gone through VRD (just open and save or with cuts or just qsf) there is a video-delay up to 4 seconds after jumping to any point of the video (audio stars very fast).
So it seems to be the muxing.

Regards
Frank
 

jmc

Active member
Hallo Dan,
I tried several files (without and even with errors) and the result is always the same. Original files start playback after jumping in VLC (and also in Dreambox) very fast (max is 1 second delay) with audio and video.
If the file has gone through VRD (just open and save or with cuts or just qsf) there is a video-delay up to 4 seconds after jumping to any point of the video (audio stars very fast).
So it seems to be the muxing.
Regards
Frank
Just be sure "transitions with audio" is OFF. I'm getting odd delays with it on with MPGs.(no recoding)
 

JariSalminen

New member
Let me raise this thread, since I have this same problem i.e. jumps with VLC are jerky.

I've also noticed that the audio and video get out of sync when saved with VideoReDo.

I've been evaluating VideoReDo (6.181 beta at this moment) for some time now but these two problems currently prevent me to purchase VideoReDo.

I open a .ts video, make a selection of the whole video and save it using Transport Stream (Match Source) profile.

When playing that saved video with VLC and advancing the video +10 seconds with right-arrow key, the video does not continue playing until 3-4 second after the jump.
And in one second after the video has continued playing, there's some short of glitch in the video (mosaic effect).

With the original file the video continues either immediately or in a less than one second. There's also a similar "mosaic" in the video, but that takes place right after the jump when the video continues, not one second after.

The second problem is that in the saved video the audio seems to be few frames ahead of the video i.e. those are out of sync.

Any idea why VideoReDo makes the audio and video out of sync and causes such jerky jump operation with VLC? Or is there any setting that could fix this?

I can download these example videos for your analysis.

Kind Regards,
Jari
 

jmc

Active member
I've found that if I happen to try to jump into the middle of an "IDR" segment that the video can not just start
there. It has be decoded from the IDR frame forward and that can cause display issues. (As I understand it so far.)
 

Danr

Administrator
Staff member
Let me raise this thread, since I have this same problem i.e. jumps with VLC are jerky.

I've also noticed that the audio and video get out of sync when saved with VideoReDo.

I've been evaluating VideoReDo (6.181 beta at this moment) for some time now but these two problems currently prevent me to purchase VideoReDo.

I open a .ts video, make a selection of the whole video and save it using Transport Stream (Match Source) profile.

When playing that saved video with VLC and advancing the video +10 seconds with right-arrow key, the video does not continue playing until 3-4 second after the jump.
And in one second after the video has continued playing, there's some short of glitch in the video (mosaic effect).

With the original file the video continues either immediately or in a less than one second. There's also a similar "mosaic" in the video, but that takes place right after the jump when the video continues, not one second after.

The second problem is that in the saved video the audio seems to be few frames ahead of the video i.e. those are out of sync.

Any idea why VideoReDo makes the audio and video out of sync and causes such jerky jump operation with VLC? Or is there any setting that could fix this?

I can download these example videos for your analysis.

Kind Regards,
Jari
When you save the .ts file what is the reported bit rate? It's possible that the default mux rate is too low. You can change the mux rate from ATSC to "automatic" and see if that makes a difference. Another test is to save as an MP4 file and see if that runs better in VLC since MP4 files don't have the concept of "mux rates".
 

JariSalminen

New member
When you save the .ts file what is the reported bit rate? It's possible that the default mux rate is too low. You can change the mux rate from ATSC to "automatic" and see if that makes a difference. Another test is to save as an MP4 file and see if that runs better in VLC since MP4 files don't have the concept of "mux rates".
Hi Danr. After save VideoReDo reports the Actual Video Bitrate to be 6.50 Mbps. Changing mux rate from ATSC to automatic didn't help. The VLC reports Content Rate around 7.5-8 Mbps for all these videos (both original and the copy).

I tried MP4 but no change: video seems to be 1-2 frames behind audio. And at the jump point the whole video is mosaic for 1-2 seconds until it continues.

I forgot to mention that the reason why I'm using .ts as the output format are the DVB-subtitles. VideoReDo seems to be the only editor around that preserves the subtitle streams while cutting the .ts video and saving it as .ts format. I know other formats, such as MKV, could contain subtitle streams, but so far no editor can save the subtitle streams from .ts stream to another format (not even VideoReDo). So that's why I would need to use .ts as the output format ...
 

JariSalminen

New member
As a test, try forcing a full recoding and see if that makes a difference.
Forced a recode to H.264. VRD reported 3.5 Mbps bitrate and the problems are the same: after jump it takes three second until video continue and the video is 1-2 frames behind audio. The only difference is that there's no extra mosaic visible after that one second the video had continued.

I also tried changing in VRD the Avg.bitrate to 8000 kbps and max bitrate to 10000 kbps, but no change - after jump 3 seconds of still picture. Also audio and video are still out-of-sync.
 

Danr

Administrator
Staff member
Are you using build 819? If you are, then send an email to us at support we can open up a ticket and have you upload the original video and an associated project file?
 

JariSalminen

New member
Are you using build 819? If you are, then send an email to us at support we can open up a ticket and have you upload the original video and an associated project file?
Oh, didn't notice 819 is out. I installed it and did the plain copy test (.ts to .ts) and the problems are the same.

I'll send email to your support and prepare to download.

Kind Regards,
Jari
 
Top Bottom